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cody_reads_books's review against another edition
challenging
dark
informative
mysterious
reflective
sad
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
5.0
colepsmith42's review against another edition
4.0
3.5 leaning to 4. Sometimes pretentious, but lovely writing that helps recontextualize the way colonization changes the shape of society and life, at a basic level.
justin_zigenis's review against another edition
5.0
Fathers and Crows starts with the best dedication I’ve ever read:
“This book is dedicated to all Canadians, past and present, Jesuit and Iroquois; Huron, French, Algonkin, English, Montagnais, Micmac, Inuit and others. May they preserve their land together.
This book is dedicated against all dogmatists and their armies (in which some of the above may have enlisted). Whoever they are, I cordially wish them a warm stay in Hell.
—The Author”
From the get go I’ll admit I had preconceptions about whom these dogmatists were, and for the most part my assumptions proved correct. However bias I may be, William The Blind opened my eyes to a number of viewpoints I had yet to consider.
Sprawling, bloody, heartbreaking, maddening, thought provoking, etc., all the ingredients for an epic move bound to haunt me for a long time.
Highly recommend.
ichirofakename's review against another edition
2.0
I probably would have finished rereading this in time (library vs. travel) if the first 200 pages hadn't been so fragmented and tedious. Not recommended.
docpacey's review against another edition
4.0
William T Vollmann has asked his audience to join him on an ambitious journey, a dream journey, told in seven parts, of the settling of the north american continent by europeans, and the impact of their coming on the native peoples.
Volume II is immense, almost 900 pages retelling the jesuit incursion into Canada in the 17th century. From the earliest days of Champlain and the beaver trade, through the Iroqouis wars on the Huron peoples, the unrelenting decimation of the native culture is retold through the eyes of the rival priests and shaman.
In the hands of a lesser writer this subject could have been dry and torturous, but Vollmann's treatment of his characters, and his incisive prose carry the reader along the stream of time, through the rapids and into the swirls and eddies of this dream.
Q -- 3
E -- 4
I -- 4
(16)
Volume II is immense, almost 900 pages retelling the jesuit incursion into Canada in the 17th century. From the earliest days of Champlain and the beaver trade, through the Iroqouis wars on the Huron peoples, the unrelenting decimation of the native culture is retold through the eyes of the rival priests and shaman.
In the hands of a lesser writer this subject could have been dry and torturous, but Vollmann's treatment of his characters, and his incisive prose carry the reader along the stream of time, through the rapids and into the swirls and eddies of this dream.
Q -- 3
E -- 4
I -- 4
(16)
freewaygods's review against another edition
adventurous
informative
sad
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
3.75
I have dreamed the Second Dream, have forded the Stream of Time, braved past even the Seventy-Third Rapids, seen the Floating Island of Born Swimming and Born Underwater’s dreams, made the exercises with Père Brébeuf, and I will ATTEND THE GREEN FIRE with Saint Tekakwitha.
Fathers and Crows, for it's massive length, does not feel too dense. It does, however, feel extremely digressive. If you do not find yourself caught up in the prose or the large cast of characters, you may find this novel a slog, a struggle through the rapids of the Stream of Time (this is the First Point).
Personally, I was less enraptured with the characters and the narrative as I was with the First Dream, The Ice-Shirt, but this is not to say I did not enjoy it. Vollmann's stylistics are fantastic, and the narrative voice of William the Blind is, in my opinion, strong enough to carry a reader across 900 pages.
One might be surprised to see how Vollmann handles this particular collision between the indigenous peoples of this continent with Europeans — discourse surrounding colonization has certainly developed much further than what was generally in the mainstream at the time of his writing Fathers and Crows. Thus, the novel feels certainly centered on the French/colonial perspective, and as such replicates many aspects of the colonial gaze, but in ways that often call attention to that very gaze itself. This creates an interesting reading experience, which most likely would not have been able to be written or published today.
With all this said, I will still strongly advocate for readers to attempt the Exercises, to brave the Stream of Time and read all of Vollmann's Seven Dreams, including Fathers and Crows. I would highly recommend first reading The Ice-Shirt, and also if possible, encourage readers to read Vollmann's oeuvre in order of publication, in order to acclimate to his unique style. Regardless of how you engage with his texts, and Fathers and Crows in particular, there is plenty for readers to enjoy and learn here.
Fathers and Crows, for it's massive length, does not feel too dense. It does, however, feel extremely digressive. If you do not find yourself caught up in the prose or the large cast of characters, you may find this novel a slog, a struggle through the rapids of the Stream of Time (this is the First Point).
Personally, I was less enraptured with the characters and the narrative as I was with the First Dream, The Ice-Shirt, but this is not to say I did not enjoy it. Vollmann's stylistics are fantastic, and the narrative voice of William the Blind is, in my opinion, strong enough to carry a reader across 900 pages.
One might be surprised to see how Vollmann handles this particular collision between the indigenous peoples of this continent with Europeans — discourse surrounding colonization has certainly developed much further than what was generally in the mainstream at the time of his writing Fathers and Crows. Thus, the novel feels certainly centered on the French/colonial perspective, and as such replicates many aspects of the colonial gaze, but in ways that often call attention to that very gaze itself. This creates an interesting reading experience, which most likely would not have been able to be written or published today.
With all this said, I will still strongly advocate for readers to attempt the Exercises, to brave the Stream of Time and read all of Vollmann's Seven Dreams, including Fathers and Crows. I would highly recommend first reading The Ice-Shirt, and also if possible, encourage readers to read Vollmann's oeuvre in order of publication, in order to acclimate to his unique style. Regardless of how you engage with his texts, and Fathers and Crows in particular, there is plenty for readers to enjoy and learn here.
williamtheblind's review against another edition
5.0
I've read a lot of books in my time. This is the only one that has ever given me an erection of the heart.
If non-conventional narratives bother you, than you should probably be checking out James Patterson's novel-of-the-week.
Fathers And Crows will take you elsewhere. Vollmann truly understands the grammar of the heart and, as one novelist once wrote me, is "the hurdy-wordy man," bringing 900+ pages to the scene. Sure, his editors beg for cuts, cry for the trees that will be sacrificed. To his credit, big Bill says "Fuck it. I'll take no royalties to have it published in full." Thanks, Bill. I, for one, have been touched by your greatness.
When Bill wins the Nobel, I expect to be invited. I sang the cry in the early days and I sang the cry here.
And, for me, it all started with this book. As the National Book Award has become more adventurous in recent years (Vollmann, Powers, Johnson...whoulda thunk it), my hope burns bright and springs eternal (the Red Sox fan in me). See you in Stockholm, someday, you fucking genius, you.
If non-conventional narratives bother you, than you should probably be checking out James Patterson's novel-of-the-week.
Fathers And Crows will take you elsewhere. Vollmann truly understands the grammar of the heart and, as one novelist once wrote me, is "the hurdy-wordy man," bringing 900+ pages to the scene. Sure, his editors beg for cuts, cry for the trees that will be sacrificed. To his credit, big Bill says "Fuck it. I'll take no royalties to have it published in full." Thanks, Bill. I, for one, have been touched by your greatness.
When Bill wins the Nobel, I expect to be invited. I sang the cry in the early days and I sang the cry here.
And, for me, it all started with this book. As the National Book Award has become more adventurous in recent years (Vollmann, Powers, Johnson...whoulda thunk it), my hope burns bright and springs eternal (the Red Sox fan in me). See you in Stockholm, someday, you fucking genius, you.
ottopivnr's review against another edition
4.0
William T Vollmann has asked his audience to join him on an ambitious journey, a dream journey, told in seven parts, of the settling of the north american continent by europeans, and the impact of their coming on the native peoples.
Volume II is immense, almost 900 pages retelling the jesuit incursion into Canada in the 17th century. From the earliest days of Champlain and the beaver trade, through the Iroqouis wars on the Huron peoples, the unrelenting decimation of the native culture is retold through the eyes of the rival priests and shaman.
In the hands of a lesser writer this subject could have been dry and torturous, but Vollmann's treatment of his characters, and his incisive prose carry the reader along the stream of time, through the rapids and into the swirls and eddies of this dream.
Q -- 3
E -- 4
I -- 4
(16)
Volume II is immense, almost 900 pages retelling the jesuit incursion into Canada in the 17th century. From the earliest days of Champlain and the beaver trade, through the Iroqouis wars on the Huron peoples, the unrelenting decimation of the native culture is retold through the eyes of the rival priests and shaman.
In the hands of a lesser writer this subject could have been dry and torturous, but Vollmann's treatment of his characters, and his incisive prose carry the reader along the stream of time, through the rapids and into the swirls and eddies of this dream.
Q -- 3
E -- 4
I -- 4
(16)
h2oetry's review against another edition
5.0
“This book is dedicated against all dogmatists and their armies. Whoever they are, I cordially wish them a warm stay in Hell.” -- from the author’s dedicatory page.
*******
William the Blind, dictating through William T. Vollmann’s pen, writes as if Dostoevksy’s & Hemingway’s writing were having a ménage à trois with an atlas near the chilly mouth of a constantly-birthed-by-glacial-melt river.
The Second Dream of William The Blind flies Crow-Like(but certainly not in the attenuated vector path in which the phrase ‘as the crow flies’ would allude) over inlets of emergence and convergence as if the First Dream, The Ice-Shirt, is melting.
*******
We’re flung as salmon upstream toward Canada’s non-Canadaness circa the first half of the 17th century. The Huron tribe along with its warring opposition Iroquois tribes -- all waiting in the We Were Here First way -- are greeted by everyone’s favorite motive-wielding intruders: Christian missionaries. Hailing from France, these clergy are highly-trained Jesuits(called Black Robes by the natives) and arrive to share and trade their knowledge of eternity and salvation, which -- as all dogmatists know and portend -- comes at a price(but what of value?).
Emigrate and gentrify according to Our Team cultural determinants seems to be the modus operandi of a great number of European explorers, especially those driven by THE LORD. Having settled, what invariably comes next? The rapid fluctuations of: price, value, trade, currency. Currents, see?
What better way to encourage the free flow of the curren[ts;cy] than to prevent the Dam[nation]s raised by busy-bodied beavers? Simply give them -- the beavers -- a price, a value, a CONVERSION. Catch, skin, and tan THEM. Pelts for all! Cloak the rich with the coats, fill with pelts the boats.
Exchange is necessary. Pelts for Iron. Death for DEATH. The ultimate zero-sum game of DEATH whose backing lacks assets yet boasts ASSETS ASSETS ASSETS.
But the greed -- try as you surely may to pick a team -- runs both ways. Too many Yeses and not enough Nos or Knows. As the cultures gristle at assimilation, the tensions mount and bubble and wash over the rocks until, as blind as a riverbend, the valences of RAPIDS and WATERFALLS disturb the tranquil and offer obfuscating foam during the turbulent acceleration toward the UNKNOWN. Which among the boulders is to blame for the TURBULENCE?
Ascension offered as covert condescension; a promised DEATH sans resurrection. Why Dream of a Floating Island when HEAVEN awaits those baptized?
Until all requisite pronouns KNOW, all manner of means will be deployed. A means to THE END of which Our FATHERS have spoken.
Is Canada Canada, or is Canada New France, or is Canada of New France, and just what in THE WORLD was it before? Who can lay claim? Is claim lain?
All these questions posed because what do ANSWERS expose?
Thy will be done.
Thy will, be done.
No? Know.
Know? No.
*******
*******
William the Blind, dictating through William T. Vollmann’s pen, writes as if Dostoevksy’s & Hemingway’s writing were having a ménage à trois with an atlas near the chilly mouth of a constantly-birthed-by-glacial-melt river.
The Second Dream of William The Blind flies Crow-Like(but certainly not in the attenuated vector path in which the phrase ‘as the crow flies’ would allude) over inlets of emergence and convergence as if the First Dream, The Ice-Shirt, is melting.
*******
We’re flung as salmon upstream toward Canada’s non-Canadaness circa the first half of the 17th century. The Huron tribe along with its warring opposition Iroquois tribes -- all waiting in the We Were Here First way -- are greeted by everyone’s favorite motive-wielding intruders: Christian missionaries. Hailing from France, these clergy are highly-trained Jesuits(called Black Robes by the natives) and arrive to share and trade their knowledge of eternity and salvation, which -- as all dogmatists know and portend -- comes at a price(but what of value?).
Emigrate and gentrify according to Our Team cultural determinants seems to be the modus operandi of a great number of European explorers, especially those driven by THE LORD. Having settled, what invariably comes next? The rapid fluctuations of: price, value, trade, currency. Currents, see?
What better way to encourage the free flow of the curren[ts;cy] than to prevent the Dam[nation]s raised by busy-bodied beavers? Simply give them -- the beavers -- a price, a value, a CONVERSION. Catch, skin, and tan THEM. Pelts for all! Cloak the rich with the coats, fill with pelts the boats.
Exchange is necessary. Pelts for Iron. Death for DEATH. The ultimate zero-sum game of DEATH whose backing lacks assets yet boasts ASSETS ASSETS ASSETS.
But the greed -- try as you surely may to pick a team -- runs both ways. Too many Yeses and not enough Nos or Knows. As the cultures gristle at assimilation, the tensions mount and bubble and wash over the rocks until, as blind as a riverbend, the valences of RAPIDS and WATERFALLS disturb the tranquil and offer obfuscating foam during the turbulent acceleration toward the UNKNOWN. Which among the boulders is to blame for the TURBULENCE?
Ascension offered as covert condescension; a promised DEATH sans resurrection. Why Dream of a Floating Island when HEAVEN awaits those baptized?
Until all requisite pronouns KNOW, all manner of means will be deployed. A means to THE END of which Our FATHERS have spoken.
Is Canada Canada, or is Canada New France, or is Canada of New France, and just what in THE WORLD was it before? Who can lay claim? Is claim lain?
“He flew now the way a river bends without reason. He flew for the same reason (I suppose) that snow is darker than clouds; for hunger is no reason; hunger simply is. He flew until he could not fly anymore. Then he landed upon a snowy branch and died. History devours what happens, without any reason. History devoured the crow.” -- A Bird in Winter(215)
All these questions posed because what do ANSWERS expose?
Thy will be done.
Thy will, be done.
No? Know.
Know? No.
*******