Scan barcode
rasharnes's review
4.0
I truly liked the story more than I thought I would. Plenty of nice and badass moments. The infernal warmachines were a disappointment though.
mollyadaza's review
3.0
D&D hot potato
*Disclaimer: I have only read this, have not yet run the campaign for a party
As many other reviewers have said, the party is just passed from one NPC to another until they're led to the final battle/plot. It's disconnected side quest after side quest with very few returning NPCs. This tried to do way too much and left a lot of really fantastic concepts half developed.
If you're a new DM that wants a lot of structure or you don't have time to rework a large part of the adventure, this isn't a bad module to use. The NPCs are interesting, the plot is relatively quick paced, and you'll be able to lead the party through the plot, giving them some free will but for the most part, they'll have to follow the module. This could also be helpful for a party that doesn't have a lot of initiative (ie. needs someone to lead/make decisions). But if you have strong willed players like I do, I see a lot of conflict occurring.
If you, like me, don't want to be caged in like this, be prepared to spend hours reworking the plot, especially the beginning in Baldur's Gate, to make it more of a free world for the characters. One of the biggest edits I'll be making is the character's motivations. This module never really gives a reason why this party is doing anything, other than that NPCs (who are of much higher level) tell them to. Like dude, just do it yourself. Why have level 4 characters do it? Why these characters? What do they have in common? The dark secret part is a half-@ssed attempt to tie them all together.
Once you get into Avernus, it's a string of "I'll help you if you do me a favor" from NPC to NPC. What if you have lawful good characters in the party? Are they really ok doing so many favors for demons and devils?
Summary:
-It's the books way or the highway (i.e. the party is forced to do x, y, and z or be killed)
-The lore is great
-There were too many good ideas that weren't utilized well (the infernal war machines, the Wandering Emporium, the politics of the demon lords)
-Is going to take a lot of work to make it playable for my DMing style
*Disclaimer: I have only read this, have not yet run the campaign for a party
As many other reviewers have said, the party is just passed from one NPC to another until they're led to the final battle/plot. It's disconnected side quest after side quest with very few returning NPCs. This tried to do way too much and left a lot of really fantastic concepts half developed.
If you're a new DM that wants a lot of structure or you don't have time to rework a large part of the adventure, this isn't a bad module to use. The NPCs are interesting, the plot is relatively quick paced, and you'll be able to lead the party through the plot, giving them some free will but for the most part, they'll have to follow the module. This could also be helpful for a party that doesn't have a lot of initiative (ie. needs someone to lead/make decisions). But if you have strong willed players like I do, I see a lot of conflict occurring.
If you, like me, don't want to be caged in like this, be prepared to spend hours reworking the plot, especially the beginning in Baldur's Gate, to make it more of a free world for the characters. One of the biggest edits I'll be making is the character's motivations. This module never really gives a reason why this party is doing anything, other than that NPCs (who are of much higher level) tell them to. Like dude, just do it yourself. Why have level 4 characters do it? Why these characters? What do they have in common? The dark secret part is a half-@ssed attempt to tie them all together.
Once you get into Avernus, it's a string of "I'll help you if you do me a favor" from NPC to NPC. What if you have lawful good characters in the party? Are they really ok doing so many favors for demons and devils?
Summary:
-It's the books way or the highway (i.e. the party is forced to do x, y, and z or be killed)
-The lore is great
-There were too many good ideas that weren't utilized well (the infernal war machines, the Wandering Emporium, the politics of the demon lords)
-Is going to take a lot of work to make it playable for my DMing style
drew1013's review against another edition
4.0
UPDATE: Check the end of this review for more thoughts after running this module for over a year
I’ve been running Descent into Avernus for 9 sessions now (about 27 hours of play time), and the party is still in Baldur’s Gate, the first location. Besides some cultists, they have heard nothing about Avernus or anything hellish. This is a testament to the main issue with the adventure, which is pacing.
No spoilers, but there are several places the characters will visit before Avernus, and as the DM, it’s a lot of work to keep them engaged. They are having fun, but I’ve had to add a good amount of backstory and personal connections to the plot in order make sure they do. We play once weekly, so 9 weeks and we aren’t past the first section. Admittedly, the first section is a fully realized quest in Baldur’s Gate that transitions to the larger story. There’s plenty to do, especially with the Baldur’s Gate Gazeteer section in the book, which is great.
But there’s no personal story hook for the party. And even if they invent one (which I had to do myself), they won’t get to Avernus for so long that they might forget which adventure they’re playing.
Simply put, this adventure is a lot of work for the DM early on, having to carry the momentum of the story by changing parts of it—or adding all new parts—in order for the players to remember Avernus at all, and to feel like they’re going to get there at some point.
I know that some DMs have just skipped the first 3 areas and dropped the party into Avernus, and I feel that’s closer to the right move. Some initial stuff in Baldur’s Gate, character intros and an initial fight that reveals the larger story, then wham, you’re there.
As it’s going with my group, we may reach Avernus in another 8 sessions, so we’d be clocking in at easily 40, maybe up to 60 hours of play before getting there. I hope I can keep their attention that long without them getting a single glimpse of the title setting. There’s an object early-ish on (8-10 sessions) that contains a devil’s trapped soul, but that’s about it.
There is also a very interesting “Dark Secret” mechanic, where the characters have all participated in a horrible act, like murder or theft. However, this is promptly forgotten, and never comes up again in the book after suggesting that you set it up. So basically, a cool idea that is left completely up to the DM to develop.
I can’t speak to the infernal war machines, devil contracts, or anything else because I haven’t had a chance to actually do any of it. It sounds cool in theory, but who knows? My players may get bored and drop off long before I ever get a chance to see Avernus, despite my best efforts.
**vague but significant spoilers for players from here until the update:**
One thing that worries me about the actual Avernus part of it is that the branching plot lines are both structured on a go-here-do-this chain of events. At each stop however—this being hell after all—they are lied to, cheated, and led on. While that’s true to the nature of devils and demons, in practice, I worry that this may be a frustrating experience.
Characters want to feel like they’re making progress, that their efforts mean something. The way the adventure is set up in the book, it seems like the party would be one or two bad sessions away from giving up entirely. Imagine a character dying (or nearly dying and suffering some disfigurement, of which there are many) after a long, arduous journey only to find that it was for nothing, a wild hellgoose chase, and the devil who sent you on it basically responds with “lol what did you expect?”
Also, the main villain is largely absent until the end of the campaign, and that is going to hurt the players’ investment into the story. Even her indirect influence is not very palpable, with Avernus functioning fine on its own while she’s off fighting the Blood War. I compare this to Strahd (which may not be fair on its surface, since he’s one of if not the best D&D villain ever, but I think it’s fair because this is D&D and they can rip off their own stories and villain traits), whose menacing presence is felt early and often. He toys with the party, scares them, turns them against each other. He even confronts them in battles they have no hope of winning, just to test them and scare them before disappearing. The main villain of DiA is MiA until the last few sessions, and in my opinion, I will need to change that, too. Which means more prep, more homebrew, more writing and planning. I have a running list of things I need to change and prep, and it’s not short.
Bottom line, I’m having fun, and my players are having fun, but it’s happening in spite of the module, not because of it... Prepping this adventure is a lot of work every week because of everything I have to change and add in order to keep the pace, and at the rate it’s running, this campaign will likely take at least 8 or 9 months to finish. That’s good, I’m many ways. But when half of that time will be spent just getting to the title setting, there’s a big risk of players falling asleep at the wheel.
UPDATE after over a year of playing nearly every week (No Spoilers)
I may have been too harsh in my review, so I bumped my original score of 3 stars to 4 stars. Here's why: nothing in the first 3 locations is anywhere near as fun as Avernus itself. That might sound obvious, but it shouldn't, given that there is a LOT that happens before you get to Avernus. But once my group got there, things really kicked up a notch.
There were 3 major things that really changed my mind:
First were the infernal war machine battles. The mechanics of war machine battles in the book are fun and lend themselves nicely to "theatre of the mind" play. I highly recommend running war machine combat this way, as it allows for some amazing free-flowing action. Throw on some Mad Max music and let chaos reign.
Second, infernal contracts. Let's face it, D&D parties are untrusting in the best of situations, so you have to be really clever to get them to sign an infernal contract (unless they already want to). Coming up with a way to get them ALL to sign the same contract was a nightmare at first, but became an RP dream come true. I was dreading infernal contracts because I just couldn't imagine a way to trick my players, nor could I think of anything to offer them that would make them sign. But I found a way, and it was extremely rewarding.
How I handled the infernal contract: weave a character's backstory in with the devil offering the deal, and make it a good deal. No tricks, or if there's a trick, it needs to be supremely subtle. This devil wants them to succeed, and it has answers to a player's past. Sprinkle in more breadcrumbs contingent on the rest of the party signing, one by one. One of the best sessions we've had in over 43 (and counting) sessions was the one where they decided, each for their own reasons, to sign the contract. To help their friend find answers, to gain power, and to defeat Zariel, they debated for well over an hour in real time and it lent itself to excellent RP opportunities.
Third: the difficulty. Once in hell, the encounters in the book can be quite difficult, if you choose to run them all-out. Most are either well-balanced or have clear signals that the group is outmatched and should run. However, my group consists of 3 veteran DMs and a veteran player, and they know their tactics. They run from (almost) nothing, and they either pay the price or reap the rewards. Players have fallen at the brink of death while dangerous enemies live on, cutting through the others. Players (not PCs, but the players) have frozen still, unable to decide how to deal with what's in front of them. These battles, when handled with care, can be both deadly and extremely rewarding. YMMV, of course, as it's dependent on the group.
So for those reasons, I've bumped my rating from 3 to 4 stars. It still has some motivation issues and more than a few "why did we just do that?" moments that will make the DM put in work, and I really hate that some majorly cool stuff from the Baldur's Gate section is abandoned the minute you leave the city, but it's a damn good adventure all the same.
I’ve been running Descent into Avernus for 9 sessions now (about 27 hours of play time), and the party is still in Baldur’s Gate, the first location. Besides some cultists, they have heard nothing about Avernus or anything hellish. This is a testament to the main issue with the adventure, which is pacing.
No spoilers, but there are several places the characters will visit before Avernus, and as the DM, it’s a lot of work to keep them engaged. They are having fun, but I’ve had to add a good amount of backstory and personal connections to the plot in order make sure they do. We play once weekly, so 9 weeks and we aren’t past the first section. Admittedly, the first section is a fully realized quest in Baldur’s Gate that transitions to the larger story. There’s plenty to do, especially with the Baldur’s Gate Gazeteer section in the book, which is great.
But there’s no personal story hook for the party. And even if they invent one (which I had to do myself), they won’t get to Avernus for so long that they might forget which adventure they’re playing.
Simply put, this adventure is a lot of work for the DM early on, having to carry the momentum of the story by changing parts of it—or adding all new parts—in order for the players to remember Avernus at all, and to feel like they’re going to get there at some point.
I know that some DMs have just skipped the first 3 areas and dropped the party into Avernus, and I feel that’s closer to the right move. Some initial stuff in Baldur’s Gate, character intros and an initial fight that reveals the larger story, then wham, you’re there.
As it’s going with my group, we may reach Avernus in another 8 sessions, so we’d be clocking in at easily 40, maybe up to 60 hours of play before getting there. I hope I can keep their attention that long without them getting a single glimpse of the title setting. There’s an object early-ish on (8-10 sessions) that contains a devil’s trapped soul, but that’s about it.
There is also a very interesting “Dark Secret” mechanic, where the characters have all participated in a horrible act, like murder or theft. However, this is promptly forgotten, and never comes up again in the book after suggesting that you set it up. So basically, a cool idea that is left completely up to the DM to develop.
I can’t speak to the infernal war machines, devil contracts, or anything else because I haven’t had a chance to actually do any of it. It sounds cool in theory, but who knows? My players may get bored and drop off long before I ever get a chance to see Avernus, despite my best efforts.
**vague but significant spoilers for players from here until the update:**
One thing that worries me about the actual Avernus part of it is that the branching plot lines are both structured on a go-here-do-this chain of events. At each stop however—this being hell after all—they are lied to, cheated, and led on. While that’s true to the nature of devils and demons, in practice, I worry that this may be a frustrating experience.
Characters want to feel like they’re making progress, that their efforts mean something. The way the adventure is set up in the book, it seems like the party would be one or two bad sessions away from giving up entirely. Imagine a character dying (or nearly dying and suffering some disfigurement, of which there are many) after a long, arduous journey only to find that it was for nothing, a wild hellgoose chase, and the devil who sent you on it basically responds with “lol what did you expect?”
Also, the main villain is largely absent until the end of the campaign, and that is going to hurt the players’ investment into the story. Even her indirect influence is not very palpable, with Avernus functioning fine on its own while she’s off fighting the Blood War. I compare this to Strahd (which may not be fair on its surface, since he’s one of if not the best D&D villain ever, but I think it’s fair because this is D&D and they can rip off their own stories and villain traits), whose menacing presence is felt early and often. He toys with the party, scares them, turns them against each other. He even confronts them in battles they have no hope of winning, just to test them and scare them before disappearing. The main villain of DiA is MiA until the last few sessions, and in my opinion, I will need to change that, too. Which means more prep, more homebrew, more writing and planning. I have a running list of things I need to change and prep, and it’s not short.
Bottom line, I’m having fun, and my players are having fun, but it’s happening in spite of the module, not because of it... Prepping this adventure is a lot of work every week because of everything I have to change and add in order to keep the pace, and at the rate it’s running, this campaign will likely take at least 8 or 9 months to finish. That’s good, I’m many ways. But when half of that time will be spent just getting to the title setting, there’s a big risk of players falling asleep at the wheel.
UPDATE after over a year of playing nearly every week (No Spoilers)
I may have been too harsh in my review, so I bumped my original score of 3 stars to 4 stars. Here's why: nothing in the first 3 locations is anywhere near as fun as Avernus itself. That might sound obvious, but it shouldn't, given that there is a LOT that happens before you get to Avernus. But once my group got there, things really kicked up a notch.
There were 3 major things that really changed my mind:
First were the infernal war machine battles. The mechanics of war machine battles in the book are fun and lend themselves nicely to "theatre of the mind" play. I highly recommend running war machine combat this way, as it allows for some amazing free-flowing action. Throw on some Mad Max music and let chaos reign.
Second, infernal contracts. Let's face it, D&D parties are untrusting in the best of situations, so you have to be really clever to get them to sign an infernal contract (unless they already want to). Coming up with a way to get them ALL to sign the same contract was a nightmare at first, but became an RP dream come true. I was dreading infernal contracts because I just couldn't imagine a way to trick my players, nor could I think of anything to offer them that would make them sign. But I found a way, and it was extremely rewarding.
How I handled the infernal contract: weave a character's backstory in with the devil offering the deal, and make it a good deal. No tricks, or if there's a trick, it needs to be supremely subtle. This devil wants them to succeed, and it has answers to a player's past. Sprinkle in more breadcrumbs contingent on the rest of the party signing, one by one. One of the best sessions we've had in over 43 (and counting) sessions was the one where they decided, each for their own reasons, to sign the contract. To help their friend find answers, to gain power, and to defeat Zariel, they debated for well over an hour in real time and it lent itself to excellent RP opportunities.
Third: the difficulty. Once in hell, the encounters in the book can be quite difficult, if you choose to run them all-out. Most are either well-balanced or have clear signals that the group is outmatched and should run. However, my group consists of 3 veteran DMs and a veteran player, and they know their tactics. They run from (almost) nothing, and they either pay the price or reap the rewards. Players have fallen at the brink of death while dangerous enemies live on, cutting through the others. Players (not PCs, but the players) have frozen still, unable to decide how to deal with what's in front of them. These battles, when handled with care, can be both deadly and extremely rewarding. YMMV, of course, as it's dependent on the group.
So for those reasons, I've bumped my rating from 3 to 4 stars. It still has some motivation issues and more than a few "why did we just do that?" moments that will make the DM put in work, and I really hate that some majorly cool stuff from the Baldur's Gate section is abandoned the minute you leave the city, but it's a damn good adventure all the same.
vengence99's review against another edition
Chapter 1 kinda didn't fit into the whole module, but the rest was okay. Homebrewed Chapter three hard.
cslwoodward's review against another edition
2.0
Dates read = dates run.
There’s a lot of great ideas with this but the pacing and execution is baaaad. Get Mordenkainen’s Tome of Foes instead and write your own adventure to save yourself the time put towards this. It’s not a “pick up and run” adventure that a lot of newer dms would want from Wizards, especially so late into 5e’s life. There are indeed some real cool moments but you’ve gotta get through the padding, fetch quests and everything else before you get to any meat. There’s a whole lot of fat on this campaign and it’s a real disappointment too.
There’s a lot of great ideas with this but the pacing and execution is baaaad. Get Mordenkainen’s Tome of Foes instead and write your own adventure to save yourself the time put towards this. It’s not a “pick up and run” adventure that a lot of newer dms would want from Wizards, especially so late into 5e’s life. There are indeed some real cool moments but you’ve gotta get through the padding, fetch quests and everything else before you get to any meat. There’s a whole lot of fat on this campaign and it’s a real disappointment too.
More...