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For Us, the Living: A Comedy of Customs by Spider Robinson, Robert James, Robert A. Heinlein
__kell__'s review against another edition
challenging
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
2.0
dja777's review against another edition
2.0
No stars at all for the story, because there really isn't one. But I did find Heinlein's ideas on how to recreate government and economics interesting. It was really funny to read about a futuristic society that has flying cars...but still uses a slide rule. Props to the narrator, too, who managed to hold my interest through what must have been pages and pages of one character lecturing another.
I went through a big Heinlein reading binge back in high school, and I still think that he can tell one heck of a story, but the sexism gets to me after a while.
I went through a big Heinlein reading binge back in high school, and I still think that he can tell one heck of a story, but the sexism gets to me after a while.
ugoglen's review against another edition
4.0
What an amazing experience, to see so many ideas that pervade and drive the rest of his corpus, all in one book. Not my favorite of his novels, but a fascinating one nonetheless, both on its own merits and as a historical record of where he started, knowing where he ended up!
bowienerd_82's review against another edition
3.0
Heinlein's famous lost novel was clearly one of his early efforts, but it contains a lot of the seeds that made so manyh of his books great.
Probably only worth it for the Heinlein enthusiast.
Probably only worth it for the Heinlein enthusiast.
henryarmitage's review against another edition
3.0
Not his best, but Heinlein fans will definitely want to read this.
Uses a Rip Van Winkle framing story to present the author's ideas
about economics, politics and relations between the sexes. If you
liked other Heinlein works featuring huge expository lumps like
Starship Troopers and The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, you'll be fine
with this.
Uses a Rip Van Winkle framing story to present the author's ideas
about economics, politics and relations between the sexes. If you
liked other Heinlein works featuring huge expository lumps like
Starship Troopers and The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, you'll be fine
with this.
peregrineace's review against another edition
3.0
Heinlein's first novel, published posthumously, and it shows. More Socratic dialogue than story, this early novel amply demonstrates Heinlein's socialist leanings, although there are strong currents of libertarian thought. The most interesting part is seeing what Heinlein predicted (a lot of economic trouble) and what he missed (people on the moon 30 years later).
An interesting look at Heinlein's thoughts as a younger man but only recommended for Heinlein completists or those interested in social philosophy novels, not sci fi. Might also make an interesting study for anyone curious about alternatives to FDR's New Deal legislation.
An interesting look at Heinlein's thoughts as a younger man but only recommended for Heinlein completists or those interested in social philosophy novels, not sci fi. Might also make an interesting study for anyone curious about alternatives to FDR's New Deal legislation.
morgandhu's review against another edition
3.0
And now for my thoughts on a Heinlein book i’d never read before, For Us, the Living. I think I’ve read everything else he wrote, but this was released so late in the game that I hadn’t gotten around to it til now. I’m glad I read it, because it’s in some ways a sourcebook for some of his greatest works.
It’s not actually a novel, of course. It’s a utopian treatise, one in a long line of such works that goes all the way back to Plato’s Republic. The story is the same in every case - dump unsuspecting everyman into your ideal society and find reasons for people to kindly take the time to explain everything about their world in depth. What is interesting is that as one reads For Us, the Living, one sees Heinlein publicly doing the worldbuilding for some of the novels and other writings that would follow. This is the world of Beyond This Horizon, and Coventry. It’s a world that came dangerously close to -If This Goes On, but escaped the theocracy (and tells us everything we needed to know about Nehemiah Scudder).
I like many of the ideas of this Heinlein, from a guaranteed annual income for everyone to the end of marriage as a public contract to compulsory voting to running a society on the idea that religious morality has nothing to do with law. To be sure, Heinlein is still pretty sexist - he thinks women are essentially different from men in some crucial ways and he couldn’t quite imagine a utopia where women are fully half of the politicians and engineers and test pilots and surgeons, though he could imagine some women being among the best in any field. But there are some bits in his utopian musings that are very much at the centre of even modern feminist thinking - such as his analysis of how giving women full economic equality, through the GAI he envisions, changes the entire nature of relationships between men and women. And there’s a bit where he accurately describes the way that male possessiveness turns into controlling relationships that stifle women.
This is the manifesto of the young (pre-Virginia) Heinlein, and it’s important because it shows where his “future history” came from. I kind of wish this Heinlein had stayed around, and avoided the plunge into John Birchism that influenced aspects of his later work.
It’s not actually a novel, of course. It’s a utopian treatise, one in a long line of such works that goes all the way back to Plato’s Republic. The story is the same in every case - dump unsuspecting everyman into your ideal society and find reasons for people to kindly take the time to explain everything about their world in depth. What is interesting is that as one reads For Us, the Living, one sees Heinlein publicly doing the worldbuilding for some of the novels and other writings that would follow. This is the world of Beyond This Horizon, and Coventry. It’s a world that came dangerously close to -If This Goes On, but escaped the theocracy (and tells us everything we needed to know about Nehemiah Scudder).
I like many of the ideas of this Heinlein, from a guaranteed annual income for everyone to the end of marriage as a public contract to compulsory voting to running a society on the idea that religious morality has nothing to do with law. To be sure, Heinlein is still pretty sexist - he thinks women are essentially different from men in some crucial ways and he couldn’t quite imagine a utopia where women are fully half of the politicians and engineers and test pilots and surgeons, though he could imagine some women being among the best in any field. But there are some bits in his utopian musings that are very much at the centre of even modern feminist thinking - such as his analysis of how giving women full economic equality, through the GAI he envisions, changes the entire nature of relationships between men and women. And there’s a bit where he accurately describes the way that male possessiveness turns into controlling relationships that stifle women.
This is the manifesto of the young (pre-Virginia) Heinlein, and it’s important because it shows where his “future history” came from. I kind of wish this Heinlein had stayed around, and avoided the plunge into John Birchism that influenced aspects of his later work.
octoberdad's review
2.0
Heinlein ordered the manuscripts of this book burned. Turns out, he was right... He just didn't get all the copies.
Not to say there's nothing worth discussing about it. (I will be doing a proper review as part of my Virginia Edition series.) [a:William H. Patterson, Jr.|28589|William H. Patterson Jr.|https://d.gr-assets.com/authors/1350060046p2/28589.jpg] is right that it includes kernels of what was to come in Heinlein's later work. But who wants kernels? I want the fully popped corn, salted and buttered, with a handful of M&Ms thrown in for kicks and giggles...
Not to say there's nothing worth discussing about it. (I will be doing a proper review as part of my Virginia Edition series.) [a:William H. Patterson, Jr.|28589|William H. Patterson Jr.|https://d.gr-assets.com/authors/1350060046p2/28589.jpg] is right that it includes kernels of what was to come in Heinlein's later work. But who wants kernels? I want the fully popped corn, salted and buttered, with a handful of M&Ms thrown in for kicks and giggles...