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azimhol's review against another edition
My first Hesse. The others have a lot to live up to!
smuds2's review against another edition
3.0
This was not what I expected it to be going in to it. It has been over a decade since I had to read Siddartha in school - and I don't really know if I even read that to begin with....
I can't talk much to the concepts introduced of jungian psychology and neistchien philosophy, so really, I can only talk about the book as a book.
This book feels like what Catcher in the Rye would be if it was a ambiguously happy story instead of an ambiguously sad one. We have a boy, obsessed with the idea of "good vs bad" at a point in his life where that concept begins to untangle, and you realize people can just become people. You have the kind of disgust for people who are not sense realized (phonys vs abels). You have an ambiguous sexual element that is never fulfilled.
Holden is left to wander, though, with no real mentor. Here, on the other hand, Sinclair has a mentor and a framework for progressing forward in a way that feels consistent with his beliefs. As a result, he ends up flourishing despite his material circumstances.
The concept of Cains being the ostracized of society, those that march to a beat of the same different drummer, is a bit.... romantic I guess. Big not like other girl energy. But more to the point - it feels self contradictory. There are infinite knowns, and unknowns. Infinite strengths and sins - yet somehow, the people in drink are lost. That math does not add up. I'm not sure I necessarily disagree with the conclusion, but there wasn't anything sufficiently discussed or shown to say that "no, those people aren't self realized". It was just supposed to be self evident. Which was a failing of the book IMO, though probably not of the philosophy (maybe if you already came in knowing Jung you'd be able to breeze past this? idk).
The content of the story is weird as all get out. Might as well be fantasy. A very interesting juxtaposition to latin american magical realism.
________________________Discussion Qs
Emil Sinclair, the hero of Demian, decides that the one true task of every person is to find the way to himself or herself. Can a life so deeply devoted to self seeking ever be truly heroic?
I balk a bit at some of the assumptions here. First off - is Emil the "hero"? I think to answer that we'd need a clearer perspective on what is meant by the term hero. In a way, I think we as the reader are supposed to identify Demien as the hero, considering he his the one lighting up the path for Emil, who we see out of the perspective of.
Lets distill the question more to "can someone who is focussed entirely on internal state be heroic"? I think that answer can be yes, if heroic actions are helpful towards self seeking. In the extreme, you think you are scared of fire until a house is on fire and you rush in and safe the woman inside. In that moment, you have learned that you are only afraid of fire under conditions in which is isn't a threat to someone, or something like that. There you go. Heroics as a side quest to self seeking.
Inherently, though, I don't think intense self-seeking necessarily leads to a heroic life, or an altruistic life, or any type of life.
Hesse’s novel is told from Sinclair’s perspective, and it tells the story of Sinclair’s growth and education. Why, then, do you think Hesse chose to name the novel after the highly important, but still secondary character Max Demian?
Because Demian is the hero - as explained above. Demian represents "the way to live".
In his brief preface, Hesse argues that the slaughter of human beings in war arises out of our failure to appreciate the unique value of every human being. Yet later in the novel he suggests that a cataclysmic war may well be necessary if human beings are to rise above their current limitations and discover a new age of freedom. In the book’s last chapter, when the war comes, it is shown as an intoxicating, exhilarating event, through which all Germans become brothers. Is Hesse’s view of war consistent? What might explain his inability to deal with it more coherently?
I didn't get a version with that preface. Boo.
This reaches back up to my primary point in the review. I don't think it's consistent. I also don't think it's consistent to think that an individuals journey of self-seeking has to look the way we expect.
I think the most obvious way to this is that true self-realization is functionally impossible. The story is told from Sinclairs POV. He isn't self-realized by the time war comes. He hasn't internalized that war is bad, he embraces us-vs-them'ing. This is Hesse saying that we can take the journey but will probably never get to the destination. From that, I assume we have to take the position that hesse basically is saying "the goal is to walk the path of self-realization, knowing full well that it will be impossible to get there, but that we should nontheless walk that path."
I can't talk much to the concepts introduced of jungian psychology and neistchien philosophy, so really, I can only talk about the book as a book.
This book feels like what Catcher in the Rye would be if it was a ambiguously happy story instead of an ambiguously sad one. We have a boy, obsessed with the idea of "good vs bad" at a point in his life where that concept begins to untangle, and you realize people can just become people. You have the kind of disgust for people who are not sense realized (phonys vs abels). You have an ambiguous sexual element that is never fulfilled.
Holden is left to wander, though, with no real mentor. Here, on the other hand, Sinclair has a mentor and a framework for progressing forward in a way that feels consistent with his beliefs. As a result, he ends up flourishing despite his material circumstances.
The concept of Cains being the ostracized of society, those that march to a beat of the same different drummer, is a bit.... romantic I guess. Big not like other girl energy. But more to the point - it feels self contradictory. There are infinite knowns, and unknowns. Infinite strengths and sins - yet somehow, the people in drink are lost. That math does not add up. I'm not sure I necessarily disagree with the conclusion, but there wasn't anything sufficiently discussed or shown to say that "no, those people aren't self realized". It was just supposed to be self evident. Which was a failing of the book IMO, though probably not of the philosophy (maybe if you already came in knowing Jung you'd be able to breeze past this? idk).
The content of the story is weird as all get out. Might as well be fantasy. A very interesting juxtaposition to latin american magical realism.
________________________Discussion Qs
Emil Sinclair, the hero of Demian, decides that the one true task of every person is to find the way to himself or herself. Can a life so deeply devoted to self seeking ever be truly heroic?
I balk a bit at some of the assumptions here. First off - is Emil the "hero"? I think to answer that we'd need a clearer perspective on what is meant by the term hero. In a way, I think we as the reader are supposed to identify Demien as the hero, considering he his the one lighting up the path for Emil, who we see out of the perspective of.
Lets distill the question more to "can someone who is focussed entirely on internal state be heroic"? I think that answer can be yes, if heroic actions are helpful towards self seeking. In the extreme, you think you are scared of fire until a house is on fire and you rush in and safe the woman inside. In that moment, you have learned that you are only afraid of fire under conditions in which is isn't a threat to someone, or something like that. There you go. Heroics as a side quest to self seeking.
Inherently, though, I don't think intense self-seeking necessarily leads to a heroic life, or an altruistic life, or any type of life.
Hesse’s novel is told from Sinclair’s perspective, and it tells the story of Sinclair’s growth and education. Why, then, do you think Hesse chose to name the novel after the highly important, but still secondary character Max Demian?
Because Demian is the hero - as explained above. Demian represents "the way to live".
In his brief preface, Hesse argues that the slaughter of human beings in war arises out of our failure to appreciate the unique value of every human being. Yet later in the novel he suggests that a cataclysmic war may well be necessary if human beings are to rise above their current limitations and discover a new age of freedom. In the book’s last chapter, when the war comes, it is shown as an intoxicating, exhilarating event, through which all Germans become brothers. Is Hesse’s view of war consistent? What might explain his inability to deal with it more coherently?
I didn't get a version with that preface. Boo.
This reaches back up to my primary point in the review. I don't think it's consistent. I also don't think it's consistent to think that an individuals journey of self-seeking has to look the way we expect.
I think the most obvious way to this is that true self-realization is functionally impossible. The story is told from Sinclairs POV. He isn't self-realized by the time war comes. He hasn't internalized that war is bad, he embraces us-vs-them'ing. This is Hesse saying that we can take the journey but will probably never get to the destination. From that, I assume we have to take the position that hesse basically is saying "the goal is to walk the path of self-realization, knowing full well that it will be impossible to get there, but that we should nontheless walk that path."
higanbanaya's review against another edition
challenging
reflective
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.0
mina17's review against another edition
I can’t remember anything from this book, it was a hard read, will have to read it again
luminella's review against another edition
dark
mysterious
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
2.75
Päähenkilö Demian aikuistui kirjan aikana ja hänen kasvutarinansa oli mielenkiintoinen. Kirjan tahti oli hyvin hidas ja kuvailua oli PALJON, josta en tykänny.
dennis_j's review against another edition
challenging
reflective
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? Yes
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
3.5
kmalon's review against another edition
dark
inspiring
reflective
4.5
It was beautifully written and dark and real and poetic. The last two chapters were dogshit but the rest was incredible