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lukija's review against another edition
4.0
Laura on vaalea kaunis ylpeä nainen, jonka sonettien kirjoittaja on nähnyt kirkossa ja johon rakastuu täydellä teholla. Kokoelmassa on kaksi osaa, joista jälkimmäinen on kirjoitettu Lauran menehdyttyä. Ei ole tietoa, oliko Laura todellinen henkilö Petrarcan runomuusana, ja sillä ei ole minulle edes väliä. En ole ihan varma, että mihin tarkalleen Lauran ihailu perustuu, mutta kohtaamisen hetkessä on jotakin maagista, joka on tehnyt syvän vaikutuksen. Tunteet jäävät Lauran eläessä yksipuolisiksi, Laura ei rakasta takaisin. Kuoleman jälkeen tilanne saattaa olla jo toinen. Mikä siinä kuolemassa on, että se syventää ihmisen hetkessä? Tai että kuolemassa tavoittelemattoman naisen voi "omistaa" tai saada puolelleen?
Petrarcan antiikin kirjallisuuden tuntemus puskee ihanasti läpi, mutta ei liikaa. Sonettien muoto käännöksessä aluksi hämäsi, mutta kun pääsin "rytmiin" kiinni niin lukeminen soljui.
"Jää, katso, Amor, missä glooriassa
hän, Luojan ihme, hetkellä on tällä:
näe, otsallaan tuon lumon säihkyjällä
on taivaan loista maassa matalassa.
Kullassa, helmissä ja purppurassa
säkenöi puku harvinainen hällä,
ja katse, jalka liikkuu liittämällä
nyt laaksossani vuorten sulkemassa.
Tuon vanhan mustan rautatammen saartain
rukoilee ruoho, kukat värein kaikin,
"mua polje, kaunis jalka!" kilvan virkkain.
Kidehtiväksi syttyy taivas kaartain
nuo kasvot: ilon koko ilma saikin,
kun kirkastaa sen silmäpari kirkkain."
sekä toinen sonetti Lauran kuoleman jälkeen:
"Tuo kauneus taivasta nyt kunnioittaa,
oi simät, hiusten joka kultajyvä,
oi kasvot, ääni, muinoin enetyvä
iloni, jonka tänään murhe voittaa!
Jos vielä veri suonissani soittaa,
jo siitä ihmetykseni on syvä:
en eläisi, hän ellei, kaunis, hyvä,
avuksi rientäisi, kun aamu koittaa.
Ah teitä, puhtat, hellät kohtaukset!
hän tarkois kuuntelee, jo tuntee siksi
hän pitkän murheeni, sen ahdistukset.
Kun päivän säteet käyvät kirkkaammiksi,
käy taivaaseen hän, taitaa vaellukset;
vaan silmät, posket sai hän kasteisiksi."
Suomennos: Elina Vaara
Petrarcan antiikin kirjallisuuden tuntemus puskee ihanasti läpi, mutta ei liikaa. Sonettien muoto käännöksessä aluksi hämäsi, mutta kun pääsin "rytmiin" kiinni niin lukeminen soljui.
"Jää, katso, Amor, missä glooriassa
hän, Luojan ihme, hetkellä on tällä:
näe, otsallaan tuon lumon säihkyjällä
on taivaan loista maassa matalassa.
Kullassa, helmissä ja purppurassa
säkenöi puku harvinainen hällä,
ja katse, jalka liikkuu liittämällä
nyt laaksossani vuorten sulkemassa.
Tuon vanhan mustan rautatammen saartain
rukoilee ruoho, kukat värein kaikin,
"mua polje, kaunis jalka!" kilvan virkkain.
Kidehtiväksi syttyy taivas kaartain
nuo kasvot: ilon koko ilma saikin,
kun kirkastaa sen silmäpari kirkkain."
sekä toinen sonetti Lauran kuoleman jälkeen:
"Tuo kauneus taivasta nyt kunnioittaa,
oi simät, hiusten joka kultajyvä,
oi kasvot, ääni, muinoin enetyvä
iloni, jonka tänään murhe voittaa!
Jos vielä veri suonissani soittaa,
jo siitä ihmetykseni on syvä:
en eläisi, hän ellei, kaunis, hyvä,
avuksi rientäisi, kun aamu koittaa.
Ah teitä, puhtat, hellät kohtaukset!
hän tarkois kuuntelee, jo tuntee siksi
hän pitkän murheeni, sen ahdistukset.
Kun päivän säteet käyvät kirkkaammiksi,
käy taivaaseen hän, taitaa vaellukset;
vaan silmät, posket sai hän kasteisiksi."
Suomennos: Elina Vaara
illbefinealone's review against another edition
5.0
One of my favorite school reads. I can't believe that I haven't rated/marked it as read by now.
nataalia_sanchez's review against another edition
challenging
dark
emotional
reflective
sad
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? N/A
- Strong character development? N/A
- Loveable characters? N/A
- Diverse cast of characters? N/A
- Flaws of characters a main focus? N/A
3.0
mistrum_crowe's review against another edition
4.0
A good translation, which is always key when translating poetry. My only complaint is that I can't seem to find a complete collection.
petrauusimaa's review against another edition
4.0
Ah, olivatpa nämä ihania ja ylitsepursuavan melodramaattisia, mutta silti ihania. Todella toimiva ja aiheeseen sopiva suomennus, joka sai tekstin eloon.
graywacke's review against another edition
4.0
Note - currently, and maybe forever, Goodreads has combined Mark Musa's and David Young's translations into a single book record. Combined review:
Petrarch lived 1304-1374, and wrote the Canzoniere from roughly from 1327 to his death.
20. Petrarch: The Canzoniere, or Rerum vulgarium fragmenta by Mark Musa
introduction assisted by Barbara Manfredi
published: 1996
format: 795-page paperback with original and English translation on facing pages. I read 497 pages.
acquired: Feb 18
read: Feb 18 – May 23
time reading: 36:06, 4.35 mpp
rating: 4
about the author: Mark Musa was an American translator 1934-2014
21. The Poetry of Petrarch by David Young
published: 2004
format: 288-page paperback
acquired: 2018
read: Feb 1- May 23
time reading: 14:53, 3.8 mpp
about the author: David Young was born 1936 in Davenport, IA, is professor at Oberlin College, in Ohio, since 1986
It was April 6, 1327 that the 23-yr-old Petrarch fell in lust or love with the sight of a married young woman in Avignon. And he apparently began writing his sonnets and other poems in the moment. For 19 years he would moan over this unrequired love, if not a stalker, certainly a great annoyance. His poems deflect and disarm criticism by personifying love and writing to love, in frustration, in gratitude, in humor, in bitter anger, in tears and distanced resignation. As he puts it in poem 69, "And I am one of those who thrives on weeping". Much of these years he lived in small mountain village, isolated except for servants. And his natural observations, his sense of the beauty of nature in isolation, infuse his poems. Also, there are aspects of time, aging, fate & death ("this way she winds and unwinds/ the spool of life that has been given me") and, in many subtle ways, faith. Then in 1348 the plague arrived in Avignon and took his Laura. The moaning poet changes, something broke. As a writer something deeper seems to happen as his hopes, however false they were, have ended in nothing. It's a bitter contact with reality.
Petrarch wrote and rewrote and resorted these poems through his life, even the early ones. So, as with much of what's here, much of the in-the-moment feel is fictional. But it coalesces. I never really got on with this younger Petrarch, or the fictional one anyway, and found myself getting annoyed as he waxed on and on. But this later Petrarch I connected with. When I read, "Perhaps there was a time when love was sweet/(although I know not when), but now there’s nothing/more bitter! ", it resonated.
In Litsy I put in this way: What to make of this? Well... it doesn‘t translate well despite inspiring efforts and imitation (like Shakespeare & Thomas Wyatt). P moans, a lot, and then Laura dies and then, well, he moans more. But the 1st ones are melodramatic stalker moans, 2nd ones rooted in something maybe deeper, more meaningful. Overall an odd experience, but an experience.
translations
[b:The Poetry of Petrarch|229398|The Poetry of Petrarch|Francesco Petrarca|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1316638125l/229398._SX50_.jpg|15501745] by [a:David Young|8879|David Young|https://s.gr-assets.com/assets/nophoto/user/u_50x66-632230dc9882b4352d753eedf9396530.png] (2004)
This was the first translation I tried. Young uses minimal notes and that didn‘t work for me. So I picked up two other translations. His uses a plain language poetic translation. That‘s odd in places. And his translation sometimes contradicted [a:Mark Musa|11524|Mark Musa|https://s.gr-assets.com/assets/nophoto/user/u_50x66-632230dc9882b4352d753eedf9396530.png]‘s (who is probably more accurate.) But Young reads easy and will get you through this in a nice way of you are willing to go with his flow. (I wasn‘t entirely willing).
[b:Selected Sonnets, Odes, and Letters|229402|Selected Sonnets, Odes, and Letters|Francesco Petrarca|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1347386148l/229402._SY75_.jpg|222166] by [a:Thomas G. Bergin|134126|Thomas G. Bergin|https://s.gr-assets.com/assets/nophoto/user/u_50x66-632230dc9882b4352d753eedf9396530.png] (1966)
Thanks to Young, I discovered this oddball anthology from 1966. It forms something like a cabinet of curiosities. It collects translations of about half of P‘s full 366 poem [b:Canzoniere|14623094|Canzoniere|Francesco Petrarca|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1360880779l/14623094._SY75_.jpg|15501745]. Highlights are the older poets like [a:Geoffrey Chaucer|1838|Geoffrey Chaucer|https://images.gr-assets.com/authors/1202588994p2/1838.jpg] (translating in 1384!), [a:Thomas Wyatt|623141|Thomas Wyatt|https://images.gr-assets.com/authors/1247677781p2/623141.jpg], and [a:Henry, Earl of Surrey|14158863|Earl of Surrey|https://s.gr-assets.com/assets/nophoto/user/u_50x66-632230dc9882b4352d753eedf9396530.png]. And I really liked all the [a:Morris Bishop|143996|Morris Bishop|https://s.gr-assets.com/assets/nophoto/user/m_50x66-82093808bca726cb3249a493fbd3bd0f.png] and [a:Joseph Auslander|633691|Joseph Auslander|https://s.gr-assets.com/assets/nophoto/user/u_50x66-632230dc9882b4352d753eedf9396530.png]. Lowlights are painfully forced rhyming and one where the translator chose the word “blithe” to be used over and over again in a long poem. Overall it has a Victorian feel and very poor translation accuracy. Since i had more accurate translations available I found this great fun.
One add thing about Bergin. Near the end Petrarch introduces a bit of humor, altering the impact of his more serious closing poems. Bergin skips these. So reading only his selections, one is left with a heartful darkness that is far more complete than is truly there.
[b:Petrarch: The Canzoniere, or Rerum vulgarium fragmenta|18939524|Petrarch The Canzoniere, or Rerum vulgarium fragmenta|Mark Musa|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1385343836l/18939524._SY75_.jpg|57266855] by [a:Mark Musa|11524|Mark Musa|https://s.gr-assets.com/assets/nophoto/user/u_50x66-632230dc9882b4352d753eedf9396530.png] (1996)
Musa was my rock here. He keeps the translation accurate and has extensive, if imperfect, notes. His poetry quality varies and almost always compromises itself in favor of accuracy. It's his notes I both really appreciated, and complained about. If he doesn't explain something, I had no where to turn.
In Musa's credit, there is this stanza from poem 126, an image that maybe has a touch of magic here, but in other translations left me flat. In Italian, it's apparently a highlight.
The thing with Petrarch is there can probably be no perfect translation. Each I came across had strengths and weaknesses. Only Musa had good notes...but I have to acknowledge I've come across works with better notes (Dante). So there is probably room for a work-of-love kind of annotation in English.
Petrarch lived 1304-1374, and wrote the Canzoniere from roughly from 1327 to his death.
20. Petrarch: The Canzoniere, or Rerum vulgarium fragmenta by Mark Musa
introduction assisted by Barbara Manfredi
published: 1996
format: 795-page paperback with original and English translation on facing pages. I read 497 pages.
acquired: Feb 18
read: Feb 18 – May 23
time reading: 36:06, 4.35 mpp
rating: 4
about the author: Mark Musa was an American translator 1934-2014
21. The Poetry of Petrarch by David Young
published: 2004
format: 288-page paperback
acquired: 2018
read: Feb 1- May 23
time reading: 14:53, 3.8 mpp
about the author: David Young was born 1936 in Davenport, IA, is professor at Oberlin College, in Ohio, since 1986
It was April 6, 1327 that the 23-yr-old Petrarch fell in lust or love with the sight of a married young woman in Avignon. And he apparently began writing his sonnets and other poems in the moment. For 19 years he would moan over this unrequired love, if not a stalker, certainly a great annoyance. His poems deflect and disarm criticism by personifying love and writing to love, in frustration, in gratitude, in humor, in bitter anger, in tears and distanced resignation. As he puts it in poem 69, "And I am one of those who thrives on weeping". Much of these years he lived in small mountain village, isolated except for servants. And his natural observations, his sense of the beauty of nature in isolation, infuse his poems. Also, there are aspects of time, aging, fate & death ("this way she winds and unwinds/ the spool of life that has been given me") and, in many subtle ways, faith. Then in 1348 the plague arrived in Avignon and took his Laura. The moaning poet changes, something broke. As a writer something deeper seems to happen as his hopes, however false they were, have ended in nothing. It's a bitter contact with reality.
In truth we are nothing but dust and shadow;
in truth desire is both blind and greedy;
in truth all hope turns out to be deceiving.
Petrarch wrote and rewrote and resorted these poems through his life, even the early ones. So, as with much of what's here, much of the in-the-moment feel is fictional. But it coalesces. I never really got on with this younger Petrarch, or the fictional one anyway, and found myself getting annoyed as he waxed on and on. But this later Petrarch I connected with. When I read, "Perhaps there was a time when love was sweet/(although I know not when), but now there’s nothing/more bitter! ", it resonated.
In Litsy I put in this way: What to make of this? Well... it doesn‘t translate well despite inspiring efforts and imitation (like Shakespeare & Thomas Wyatt). P moans, a lot, and then Laura dies and then, well, he moans more. But the 1st ones are melodramatic stalker moans, 2nd ones rooted in something maybe deeper, more meaningful. Overall an odd experience, but an experience.
translations
[b:The Poetry of Petrarch|229398|The Poetry of Petrarch|Francesco Petrarca|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1316638125l/229398._SX50_.jpg|15501745] by [a:David Young|8879|David Young|https://s.gr-assets.com/assets/nophoto/user/u_50x66-632230dc9882b4352d753eedf9396530.png] (2004)
This was the first translation I tried. Young uses minimal notes and that didn‘t work for me. So I picked up two other translations. His uses a plain language poetic translation. That‘s odd in places. And his translation sometimes contradicted [a:Mark Musa|11524|Mark Musa|https://s.gr-assets.com/assets/nophoto/user/u_50x66-632230dc9882b4352d753eedf9396530.png]‘s (who is probably more accurate.) But Young reads easy and will get you through this in a nice way of you are willing to go with his flow. (I wasn‘t entirely willing).
[b:Selected Sonnets, Odes, and Letters|229402|Selected Sonnets, Odes, and Letters|Francesco Petrarca|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1347386148l/229402._SY75_.jpg|222166] by [a:Thomas G. Bergin|134126|Thomas G. Bergin|https://s.gr-assets.com/assets/nophoto/user/u_50x66-632230dc9882b4352d753eedf9396530.png] (1966)
Thanks to Young, I discovered this oddball anthology from 1966. It forms something like a cabinet of curiosities. It collects translations of about half of P‘s full 366 poem [b:Canzoniere|14623094|Canzoniere|Francesco Petrarca|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1360880779l/14623094._SY75_.jpg|15501745]. Highlights are the older poets like [a:Geoffrey Chaucer|1838|Geoffrey Chaucer|https://images.gr-assets.com/authors/1202588994p2/1838.jpg] (translating in 1384!), [a:Thomas Wyatt|623141|Thomas Wyatt|https://images.gr-assets.com/authors/1247677781p2/623141.jpg], and [a:Henry, Earl of Surrey|14158863|Earl of Surrey|https://s.gr-assets.com/assets/nophoto/user/u_50x66-632230dc9882b4352d753eedf9396530.png]. And I really liked all the [a:Morris Bishop|143996|Morris Bishop|https://s.gr-assets.com/assets/nophoto/user/m_50x66-82093808bca726cb3249a493fbd3bd0f.png] and [a:Joseph Auslander|633691|Joseph Auslander|https://s.gr-assets.com/assets/nophoto/user/u_50x66-632230dc9882b4352d753eedf9396530.png]. Lowlights are painfully forced rhyming and one where the translator chose the word “blithe” to be used over and over again in a long poem. Overall it has a Victorian feel and very poor translation accuracy. Since i had more accurate translations available I found this great fun.
One add thing about Bergin. Near the end Petrarch introduces a bit of humor, altering the impact of his more serious closing poems. Bergin skips these. So reading only his selections, one is left with a heartful darkness that is far more complete than is truly there.
[b:Petrarch: The Canzoniere, or Rerum vulgarium fragmenta|18939524|Petrarch The Canzoniere, or Rerum vulgarium fragmenta|Mark Musa|https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1385343836l/18939524._SY75_.jpg|57266855] by [a:Mark Musa|11524|Mark Musa|https://s.gr-assets.com/assets/nophoto/user/u_50x66-632230dc9882b4352d753eedf9396530.png] (1996)
Musa was my rock here. He keeps the translation accurate and has extensive, if imperfect, notes. His poetry quality varies and almost always compromises itself in favor of accuracy. It's his notes I both really appreciated, and complained about. If he doesn't explain something, I had no where to turn.
In Musa's credit, there is this stanza from poem 126, an image that maybe has a touch of magic here, but in other translations left me flat. In Italian, it's apparently a highlight.
Falling from gracious boughs,
I sweetly call to mind,
were flowers in a rain upon her bosom,
and she was sitting there
humble in such glory
now covered in a shower of love's blooms:
a flower falling on her lap,
some fell on her blond curls,
like pearls set into gold
they seemed to me that day;
some fell to rest on ground, some on the water,
and some in lovelike wandering
were circling down and saying, "Here Love reigns."
The thing with Petrarch is there can probably be no perfect translation. Each I came across had strengths and weaknesses. Only Musa had good notes...but I have to acknowledge I've come across works with better notes (Dante). So there is probably room for a work-of-love kind of annotation in English.
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