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casparb's review against another edition
4.0
The sequel to a delightful tale. Foucault takes sexuality in Ancient Greece as his subject here. It's a genuinely piercing study ! What we'd expect from the big MF.
I found the discussion and destruction of the 'bisexual Greek' figure to be quite remarkable and I enjoyed that. A clever and self-aware distinction there, conscientiously taking Fleshly retroactive chromatography-stains away from the Grecian concepts.
There's a lot of Plato here, unsurprisingly. Phaedrus, Philebus, Symposium, Laws, Timaeus and so forth. It's nice to see him dealt with this sensibly though I wish I was better acquainted with Aristotle for a lot of this. In the new year, I'm sure. The closing remarks about the relationship between love and truth w/r/t the boys adoring Socrates in Symposium felt a genuinely remarkable step forward in both Plato studies and the constitution of Greek sexuality.
MF admits it's a restricted piece insofar as he runs from the philosophical and dietetic pieces of the era that wander into prescriptive veins. As keen as he is to emphasise that these pieces were written for and by a minority of free adult males, one can't help but feel the sexual practices of women in the period are rather underserved by Foucault here, beyond the attitudes and prescriptions of what the familiar heavy hitters say, malely. The neglect of the obvious Sappho is quite bizarre, and while I do understand that this develops through the discursive-authority vein, I couldn't help wanting more in that area.
In a sense I read this to get to Volume 4, eventually. But it was a worthwhile read and a good one for Classicists to take a look at. Volume 1 is the superior piece but I still appreciate the LSD-induced revitalisation of the project as it regards the subject. Was crucial.
I found the discussion and destruction of the 'bisexual Greek' figure to be quite remarkable and I enjoyed that. A clever and self-aware distinction there, conscientiously taking Fleshly retroactive chromatography-stains away from the Grecian concepts.
There's a lot of Plato here, unsurprisingly. Phaedrus, Philebus, Symposium, Laws, Timaeus and so forth. It's nice to see him dealt with this sensibly though I wish I was better acquainted with Aristotle for a lot of this. In the new year, I'm sure. The closing remarks about the relationship between love and truth w/r/t the boys adoring Socrates in Symposium felt a genuinely remarkable step forward in both Plato studies and the constitution of Greek sexuality.
MF admits it's a restricted piece insofar as he runs from the philosophical and dietetic pieces of the era that wander into prescriptive veins. As keen as he is to emphasise that these pieces were written for and by a minority of free adult males, one can't help but feel the sexual practices of women in the period are rather underserved by Foucault here, beyond the attitudes and prescriptions of what the familiar heavy hitters say, malely. The neglect of the obvious Sappho is quite bizarre, and while I do understand that this develops through the discursive-authority vein, I couldn't help wanting more in that area.
In a sense I read this to get to Volume 4, eventually. But it was a worthwhile read and a good one for Classicists to take a look at. Volume 1 is the superior piece but I still appreciate the LSD-induced revitalisation of the project as it regards the subject. Was crucial.
ismildlypoetic's review against another edition
challenging
informative
reflective
relaxing
medium-paced
4.0
4 stars = I loved the book! (Just didn't hyperfixate!)
This second installation of The History of Sexuality by Michel Foucault was really informative in breaking down ideas and presuppositions taken from our own culture and implanted them back into Ancient Greece, defining the four tenants Foucault looked at, and explaining how those worked in ideals and reality for the men of the time.
I personally went into the book hoping for information on the practice of "boy-loving," (which there were several chapters on), but I was also surprisingly interested in the business nature of husband and wife, and the cultural morality surrounding that.
All that being said, if you're into philosophy, Greek thinkers, or sexuality studies, I loved this book!
This second installation of The History of Sexuality by Michel Foucault was really informative in breaking down ideas and presuppositions taken from our own culture and implanted them back into Ancient Greece, defining the four tenants Foucault looked at, and explaining how those worked in ideals and reality for the men of the time.
I personally went into the book hoping for information on the practice of "boy-loving," (which there were several chapters on), but I was also surprisingly interested in the business nature of husband and wife, and the cultural morality surrounding that.
All that being said, if you're into philosophy, Greek thinkers, or sexuality studies, I loved this book!
rvandenboomgaard's review against another edition
5.0
Given the stories that go round about him, I felt slightly apprehensive in moving towards reading this book in which Foucault discusses - amongst other things - the ancient Greek's attitude towards (erotic) love for adolescent boys. If I were to read this text from the perspective of literary psychoanalysis, I would have a hard time not ascribing his efforts to a justification of his own tastes. Luckily, I did not explicitly and exclusively take up such a perspective in reading this work. That would not have done it justice.
For the love for boys is only a sub-theme, although undeniably one that's important to Foucault himself, in his discussion of the variety of attitudes that (the elite) of ancient Greece took towards sexuality. Even that discussion on boys specifically loses its ranchy connotations as Foucault shows how boys took up a particular, peculiar interest in those times; one that was more to do with a type of beauty that was exclusive to the boy, as well as a preparation for civic life, and the process of learning. The point that Foucault makes in comparing this attitude towards boys, to the later attitude towards women, this comparison being grounded in (young) women becoming the focus of a morality surrounding sexual behaviour, is - to me - decisive in ridding this work of those ranchy connotations. Put very simply, boys had the same intensity in focus of sexual interest in ancient Greece that women have later received - developed to a peak in (probably) Victorian England. Nowadays, they still do to a high degree.
Beyond this, it's a much broader work, and more broadly interesting. He links the practices of regimen (dietetics, in a very different sense than we're used to), mastery of household and social relations (economics, in a very different sense than we're used to), and an ethics of sexuality (erotics, in a very different sense than we're used to) by grace of their self-directedness. This is such a stark contrast, because we're used to externalising these domains, to either direct them outside of us, or to receive them from outside, rather than apply them to ourselves. This project ends with a chapter on true love, in which Foucault touches upon the relation that (at least) Plato saw between love and truth.
Remarkable read.
For the love for boys is only a sub-theme, although undeniably one that's important to Foucault himself, in his discussion of the variety of attitudes that (the elite) of ancient Greece took towards sexuality. Even that discussion on boys specifically loses its ranchy connotations as Foucault shows how boys took up a particular, peculiar interest in those times; one that was more to do with a type of beauty that was exclusive to the boy, as well as a preparation for civic life, and the process of learning. The point that Foucault makes in comparing this attitude towards boys, to the later attitude towards women, this comparison being grounded in (young) women becoming the focus of a morality surrounding sexual behaviour, is - to me - decisive in ridding this work of those ranchy connotations. Put very simply, boys had the same intensity in focus of sexual interest in ancient Greece that women have later received - developed to a peak in (probably) Victorian England. Nowadays, they still do to a high degree.
Beyond this, it's a much broader work, and more broadly interesting. He links the practices of regimen (dietetics, in a very different sense than we're used to), mastery of household and social relations (economics, in a very different sense than we're used to), and an ethics of sexuality (erotics, in a very different sense than we're used to) by grace of their self-directedness. This is such a stark contrast, because we're used to externalising these domains, to either direct them outside of us, or to receive them from outside, rather than apply them to ourselves. This project ends with a chapter on true love, in which Foucault touches upon the relation that (at least) Plato saw between love and truth.
Remarkable read.
leelulah's review against another edition
2.0
I could congratulate Michel Foucault on his research and examination of the way in which ancient greeks regulated, viewed and analyzed sexuality. I could talk about how he didn't present a completely distorted view of something that's commonly understood as the unavoidable differences between the greek and the Christian conception, because obviously civilizations had been previously preparing to receive such a message. The people of the Old Testament, though still Jewish, are not the same persons as in the New Testament, at least from the perspective of a social change.
It's good too, that he recognized that our interest to classify and put every sexuality under a taxonomy that can't escape us is modern. For the greeks, "bisexuality" was nothing as such, just an interest in beautiful things. So, probably he watches with some complacent ways and there's nothing wrong with talking about objects of pleasure here...at least not if sex is conceived as dialectics of domination.
There's brief chapters on the nature of marriage and the inferiority of women, that would be nothing of what this writing challenges in modern society. Of course, as a homosexual man, his main concern would be the views of homosexuality and I don't really blame him for it. But there was nothing to discuss about female homosexuality, apparently. Excuse me if I skipped those parts a bit in horror anyway, because we're talking about marriages with 15 years of difference between men and women, and teenage boys entering into contact with old men, old enough to be their parents.
It's interesting to note that also male prostitution, and not just female, was seen as bad, though of course it wasn't until much later that mutual loyalty was a requisite.
So, all in all, I'd say that it would have been more interesting to me if it covered a bit of these other areas too.
I hope the final part is more interesting. Definitely reading Foucault is far from being an experience in which I can agree with everything, but challenging my system of thought is very important and I certainly wouldn't overlook that.
It's good too, that he recognized that our interest to classify and put every sexuality under a taxonomy that can't escape us is modern. For the greeks, "bisexuality" was nothing as such, just an interest in beautiful things. So, probably he watches with some complacent ways and there's nothing wrong with talking about objects of pleasure here...at least not if sex is conceived as dialectics of domination.
There's brief chapters on the nature of marriage and the inferiority of women, that would be nothing of what this writing challenges in modern society. Of course, as a homosexual man, his main concern would be the views of homosexuality and I don't really blame him for it. But there was nothing to discuss about female homosexuality, apparently. Excuse me if I skipped those parts a bit in horror anyway, because we're talking about marriages with 15 years of difference between men and women, and teenage boys entering into contact with old men, old enough to be their parents.
It's interesting to note that also male prostitution, and not just female, was seen as bad, though of course it wasn't until much later that mutual loyalty was a requisite.
So, all in all, I'd say that it would have been more interesting to me if it covered a bit of these other areas too.
I hope the final part is more interesting. Definitely reading Foucault is far from being an experience in which I can agree with everything, but challenging my system of thought is very important and I certainly wouldn't overlook that.
spacestationtrustfund's review against another edition
3.0
Dans lequel il scrute les textes de la Grèce antique mais avec une dépendance excessive sur ceux qui sont d'attique.
tdwightdavis's review against another edition
4.0
Foucault offers a history of sexuality in Greece, sketching an ethic of sexuality and repression that predates the usual dating of repression starting with Christian theology. He offers explorations of homosexuality and bisexuality in Ancient Greece, as well as issues of eroticism and marital fidelity. An interesting read, though less heavy on theory and critique than volume one.
jakebittle's review against another edition
Definitely just as eye-opening as the first volume, though maybe more from a historical point of view than a philosophical one—which might be my fault, not his.