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mamamia's review against another edition
3.0
3.5 stars
This was a re-read for me as I also read it in July/August of 2020.
This was a re-read for me as I also read it in July/August of 2020.
josiahdegraaf's review against another edition
4.0
Really thought-provoking book on the current state of American education and how it connects to American thought. Bloom made a lot of really good points and connected a lot of American thought in very fascinating ways. Because I was only listening to this on Audible, I wasn't able to get as much of it as I could have (I tend to process information better when it's on a page), so eventually I'll need to re-read this book to more fully appreciate all the brilliance of it, and may very well bump this review up to a five star when I do it since it probably deserves it. But as-is, Bloom has a very good critique of the current system of American education that I very much enjoyed.
Rating: 4-4.5 Stars (Very Good).
Miscellaneous High Points from Bloom:
Philosophy, not cultural studies, is the way to break down cultural prejudices
Democratic societies value charisma, but they shouldn't
For all that we criticize Plato for limiting music, the Enlightenment is worse because it just does away with it altogether
Rating: 4-4.5 Stars (Very Good).
Miscellaneous High Points from Bloom:
Philosophy, not cultural studies, is the way to break down cultural prejudices
Democratic societies value charisma, but they shouldn't
For all that we criticize Plato for limiting music, the Enlightenment is worse because it just does away with it altogether
lyloster's review against another edition
Found it hard to concentrate while listening to the narrator of the audiobook, very monotonous narration. Probably will pick up later as a physical book.
dkbrady's review against another edition
3.0
Read this book many years ago. A enjoyable and persuasive argument for conservatism that had an impact on my world view at the time.
scottacorbin's review against another edition
3.0
Some parts better than others. Generally a genealogy of modernity, albeit a somewhat idiosyncratic one.
gvenezia's review against another edition
5.0
An apt, if sometimes overstated, critique of the American intellectual climate. Unfettered rationalism, the influence of continental philosophy, and the quest for political correctness are some of the main reasons Bloom gives for the poor state and gradual decline of American education. Bloom's explanation of European (specifically German) philosophy's influence on the language we use, our intellectual climate, and the state of our universities I found particularly fitting and novel, though I haven't read enough continental philosophy to wholeheartedly agree with his framing of the situation. The idea certainly seems to explain much of American culture, even 25 years after the book's publication. While some may see Bloom as a traditionalist (i.e. he supports the idea of the Great Books education) and reject his education solutions, he nonetheless brings up important critiques that demand attention and should resonate with anyone that has been a part of the American education system.
Quotes:
Thus, openness has driven out the local deities, leaving only the speechless, meaningless country. There is no immediate, sensual experience of the nation's meaning or its project, which would provide the basis for adult reflection on regimes and statesmanship. Students now arrive at the university ignorant and cynical about our political heritage, lacking the wherewithal to be either inspired by it or seriously critical of it.
People sup together, play together, travel together, but they do not think together. Hardly any homes have any intellectual life whatsoever, let alone one that informs the vital interests of life. Educational TV marks the high tide for family intellectual life.
Thus, the failure to read good books both enfeebles the vision and strengthens our most fatal tendency—the belief that the here and now is all there is.
As it stands now, students have powerful images of what a perfect body is and pursue it incessantly. But deprived of literary guidance, they no longer have any image of a perfect soul, and hence do not long to have one. They do not even imagine that there is such a thing.
Indignation is the soul's defense against he wound of doubt about its own; it reorders the cosmos to support the justice of its cause.
Armed with music, man can damn rational doubt. Out of the music emerge the gods that suit it, and they educate men by their example and their commandments.
The most visible sign of our increasing separateness and, in its turn, the cause of ever greater separateness is divorce . . . Divorce in America is the most palpable indication that people are not made to live together, and that, although they want and need to create a general will out of the particular wills, those particular wills constantly reassert themselves. There is a quest, but ever more hopeless, for arrangements and ways of putting the broken pieces back together. The task is equivalent to squaring the circle, because everyone loves himself most but wants others to love him more than they love themselves.
"The old commandment that we lover our brothers made impossible demands on us, demands against nature, while doing nothing to provide for real needs. What is required is not brotherly love or faith, hope and charity, but self-interested rational labor. The man who contributes most to relieving human misery is the one who produces most, and the surest way of getting him to do so is not by exhorting him, but by rewarding him most handsomely to sacrifice present pleasure for the sake of future benefit, or to assure avoidance of pain through the power so gained.
"God is dead," Nietzsche proclaimed. But he did not say this on a note of triumph, in the style of earlier atheism—the tyrant has been overthrown and man is now free. Rather he said it in the anguished tones of the most powerful and delicate piety deprived of its proper object. Man, who loved and needed God, has lost his Father and Savior without possibility of resurrection. The joy of liberation one finds in Marx has turned into terror at man's unprotectedness.
These sociologists who talk so facilely about the sacred are like a mana who keeps a toothless old circus lion around the house in order to experience the thrills of the jungle.
Forgetting, in a variety of subtle forms, is one of our primary modes of problem-solving.
What is so paradoxical is that our language is the product of the extraordinary thought and philosophical greatness at which this cursory and superficial survey has done nothing more than hint. There is a lifetime and more of study here, which would turn our impoverishing certitudes into humanizing doubts. To return to the reasons behind our language and weigh them against the reasons for other language would in itself liberate us . . . We are like ignorant shepherds living on a site where great civilizations once flourished. The shepherds play with the fragments that pop up to the surface, having no notion of the beautiful structures of which they were once a part. All that is necessary is a careful excavation to provide them with life-enhancing models. We need history, not to tell us what happened, or to explain the past, but to make the past alive so that it can explain us and make a future possible. This is our educational crisis and opportunity.
To sum up, there is one simple rule for the university's activity: it need not concern itself with providing its students with experiences that are available in democratic society. They will have them in any event. It must provide them with experiences they cannot have there. Tocqueville did not believe that the old writers were perfect, but he believe that they could best make us aware of our imperfections, which is what counts for us.
The universities never performed this function very well. Now they have practically ceased trying.
The ancients were always praising virtue, but men were not made more virtuous as a result
Nonphilosophic men love the truth only as long as it does not conflict with what they cherish—self, family, country, fame, love. When it does conflict, they hate the truth and regard as a monster the man who does not care for these noble things, who proves they are ephemeral and treats them as such.
True liberal education requires that the student's whole life be radically changed by it, that what he learns may affect his action, his tastes, his choices, that no previous attachment be immune to examination and hence re-evaluation. Liberal education puts everything at risk and requires students who are able to risk everything.
Men may live more truly and fully in reading Plato and Shakespeare than at any other time, because then they are participating in essential being and are forgetting their accidental lives.
Quotes:
Thus, openness has driven out the local deities, leaving only the speechless, meaningless country. There is no immediate, sensual experience of the nation's meaning or its project, which would provide the basis for adult reflection on regimes and statesmanship. Students now arrive at the university ignorant and cynical about our political heritage, lacking the wherewithal to be either inspired by it or seriously critical of it.
People sup together, play together, travel together, but they do not think together. Hardly any homes have any intellectual life whatsoever, let alone one that informs the vital interests of life. Educational TV marks the high tide for family intellectual life.
Thus, the failure to read good books both enfeebles the vision and strengthens our most fatal tendency—the belief that the here and now is all there is.
As it stands now, students have powerful images of what a perfect body is and pursue it incessantly. But deprived of literary guidance, they no longer have any image of a perfect soul, and hence do not long to have one. They do not even imagine that there is such a thing.
Indignation is the soul's defense against he wound of doubt about its own; it reorders the cosmos to support the justice of its cause.
Armed with music, man can damn rational doubt. Out of the music emerge the gods that suit it, and they educate men by their example and their commandments.
The most visible sign of our increasing separateness and, in its turn, the cause of ever greater separateness is divorce . . . Divorce in America is the most palpable indication that people are not made to live together, and that, although they want and need to create a general will out of the particular wills, those particular wills constantly reassert themselves. There is a quest, but ever more hopeless, for arrangements and ways of putting the broken pieces back together. The task is equivalent to squaring the circle, because everyone loves himself most but wants others to love him more than they love themselves.
"The old commandment that we lover our brothers made impossible demands on us, demands against nature, while doing nothing to provide for real needs. What is required is not brotherly love or faith, hope and charity, but self-interested rational labor. The man who contributes most to relieving human misery is the one who produces most, and the surest way of getting him to do so is not by exhorting him, but by rewarding him most handsomely to sacrifice present pleasure for the sake of future benefit, or to assure avoidance of pain through the power so gained.
"God is dead," Nietzsche proclaimed. But he did not say this on a note of triumph, in the style of earlier atheism—the tyrant has been overthrown and man is now free. Rather he said it in the anguished tones of the most powerful and delicate piety deprived of its proper object. Man, who loved and needed God, has lost his Father and Savior without possibility of resurrection. The joy of liberation one finds in Marx has turned into terror at man's unprotectedness.
These sociologists who talk so facilely about the sacred are like a mana who keeps a toothless old circus lion around the house in order to experience the thrills of the jungle.
Forgetting, in a variety of subtle forms, is one of our primary modes of problem-solving.
What is so paradoxical is that our language is the product of the extraordinary thought and philosophical greatness at which this cursory and superficial survey has done nothing more than hint. There is a lifetime and more of study here, which would turn our impoverishing certitudes into humanizing doubts. To return to the reasons behind our language and weigh them against the reasons for other language would in itself liberate us . . . We are like ignorant shepherds living on a site where great civilizations once flourished. The shepherds play with the fragments that pop up to the surface, having no notion of the beautiful structures of which they were once a part. All that is necessary is a careful excavation to provide them with life-enhancing models. We need history, not to tell us what happened, or to explain the past, but to make the past alive so that it can explain us and make a future possible. This is our educational crisis and opportunity.
To sum up, there is one simple rule for the university's activity: it need not concern itself with providing its students with experiences that are available in democratic society. They will have them in any event. It must provide them with experiences they cannot have there. Tocqueville did not believe that the old writers were perfect, but he believe that they could best make us aware of our imperfections, which is what counts for us.
The universities never performed this function very well. Now they have practically ceased trying.
The ancients were always praising virtue, but men were not made more virtuous as a result
Nonphilosophic men love the truth only as long as it does not conflict with what they cherish—self, family, country, fame, love. When it does conflict, they hate the truth and regard as a monster the man who does not care for these noble things, who proves they are ephemeral and treats them as such.
True liberal education requires that the student's whole life be radically changed by it, that what he learns may affect his action, his tastes, his choices, that no previous attachment be immune to examination and hence re-evaluation. Liberal education puts everything at risk and requires students who are able to risk everything.
Men may live more truly and fully in reading Plato and Shakespeare than at any other time, because then they are participating in essential being and are forgetting their accidental lives.
samuelbeer's review against another edition
3.0
This is more like 2.5 stars, maybe? Bloom had me all over the place with this one.
"Huh... that's an interesting and insightful observation... that's a clever analysis... that's a well-crafted argument... whoa--that is (if I understand it right, which I'm pretty sure I do) incredibly ill informed and maybe even mean-spirited."
Bloom finds lots of contradictions within perspectives that seem contradiction-ridden. He pines for a more integrated approach to the pursuit, production, and interpretation of knowledge. I like those things.
About 30-40% of the time, it felt like he was offering balanced and incisive ideas. About 60-70%, he read like a sad old man ordering kids off of his lawn and bemoaning the good old days when he could have beaten them with his belt. Both times were thought-provoking in some way or another, but the 30-40% were much more compelling.
"Huh... that's an interesting and insightful observation... that's a clever analysis... that's a well-crafted argument... whoa--that is (if I understand it right, which I'm pretty sure I do) incredibly ill informed and maybe even mean-spirited."
Bloom finds lots of contradictions within perspectives that seem contradiction-ridden. He pines for a more integrated approach to the pursuit, production, and interpretation of knowledge. I like those things.
About 30-40% of the time, it felt like he was offering balanced and incisive ideas. About 60-70%, he read like a sad old man ordering kids off of his lawn and bemoaning the good old days when he could have beaten them with his belt. Both times were thought-provoking in some way or another, but the 30-40% were much more compelling.
el_entrenador_loco's review against another edition
challenging
informative
reflective
slow-paced
2.25
grllopez's review against another edition
3.0
I have waited years and years to read this. I knew there was good stuff in here, but now that I finally made time for it, I wasn't as excited to read about it now. Still, it was a provocative, intriguing, and historical read.
****
Published in the late 80s, Allan Bloom wrote a scathing and disappointing report about the decline of reason and rise of relativism in the American university system. He blamed the 1960s for the change. You think?
Bloom argued for a return to the Great Books in education, which help us to think about the ideas that matter: is there truth, freedom, and a God? -- something young people crave to know, but now never find out in higher learning because everything is relative.
****
A few final (truncated) quotes:
"A good program of liberal education feeds the student's love of truth and passion to live a good life."
"The only serious solution is the one that is universally rejected: the good old Great Books approach, in which liberal education means reading classic texts, letting them dictate what the questions are and the method of approaching them,...trying to read them as their authors wished them to be read."
****
Published in the late 80s, Allan Bloom wrote a scathing and disappointing report about the decline of reason and rise of relativism in the American university system. He blamed the 1960s for the change. You think?
Bloom argued for a return to the Great Books in education, which help us to think about the ideas that matter: is there truth, freedom, and a God? -- something young people crave to know, but now never find out in higher learning because everything is relative.
****
A few final (truncated) quotes:
"A good program of liberal education feeds the student's love of truth and passion to live a good life."
"The only serious solution is the one that is universally rejected: the good old Great Books approach, in which liberal education means reading classic texts, letting them dictate what the questions are and the method of approaching them,...trying to read them as their authors wished them to be read."