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paulio365's review against another edition
5.0
Phew! Took me a month and half or so but I’m finally finished with this brick. I have a lot of mixed feelings about this book. I liked it. Until I started to hate it. Giving it anything other than 5 stars would be crime against humanity. But this review will require some caveats to that score.
Alright so, this is a book written by the E-Meister about his many conversations with the big G himself, Goethe. I had read most of Goethe’s major works this year and was ready to move on when I heard such rave reviews about this one. This is apparently Nietzsche’s favourite book, calling it a must read. It also coincides with Goethe polishing off Faust 2: Hellenic boogaloo. So I thought, why not?
Eckermann attached himself to Goethe in the five years leading up to his death and this book is mix of their face to face conversations, letters or just insights Eckermann has while working for/learning from Goethe. Now right off the bat, I should say that this book is filled with valuable insights and fascinating deep dives into Goethe’s mindset. Much of the characterisation of G-man and his work among academics appear to come from this book. Striving for the good as a life goal, the role of poets in society, hard work in the face of physical torment, it’s all here.
There’s two major caveats, however, to my five star score. For one, Goethe wasn’t some wisely sage who just sat around admiring the Däemonisch. He was a thoughtful and opinionated guy. And Eazy-E writes down everything they discussed. And I mean. Everything.
Art. Art theory. Art history. Modern art. Classical art. Rocks and minerals. The classical French. The modern French. The French critics who used to bully him. People at court who are currently bullying him. Plates. Paintings. Goethe can’t draw. German history sucks. German literature used to suck, is kind of good now, sort of. English history is great. English literature is the best thing since sliced bread, take that Voltaire! Military poems are great. Political poems sucks. Revolution la sucks. Aristocracy is great, we should not have revolutions please. Lord Byron is a mega chad. Please adopt me daddy Walter Scott. Schiller’s disgusting habits and neurotic behaviours. Napoleon did nothing wrong. Women are smart. Women are sometimes not as smart? Spirals. Italy. Nationalism. Ancient Greece. Plants. How to fire a bow. Cuckoos and the behaviours of birds? And pretty much any book, poem, play, review or goddamn scrap of paper he was reading that week.
Now don’t get me wrong, it really is valuable being able to reach into such a wide variety of topics, large and small, all in a single book, especially coming from such a rich and unique personality as Goethe. For this alone I was excited to read it and anyone, no matter who you are, will find dozens and dozens of passages to be exceptional. The problem is repetitive nature of the work. Eckermann claims he edited some of this stuff down and I’m not sure that is the case. There’s 8 passages about Napoleon I can think of off the top of my head where Goethe is essentially the exact same thing over and over again. Same goes for when he talks about Walter Scott, politics and barbarism etc. Once a month they get together to look a plate or a painting, yet the conversation seems to always lead to the same basic conclusions about art theory and art critique. Don’t let that stop you leaving it in E-meister!
It makes it quite a slog if there are references which you don’t understand. I followed along with the majority of the commentary around Goethe’s life, the ancient tragedians and Shakespeare. But at least 20% of the passages are pseudo reviews of French works with only occasional insights that can be gleaned without the added context. Not to mention the German works that I guarantee are not translated into English. Also, you better brush up your classical history! You would think there would be more juicy stuff about his exploits with the ladies but this is 19th century Europe and the best you get is how he sort of cheated on his wife writing a poem?
But my God. Do NOT get G-man started on his Theory of Colours. I haven’t studied it and I don’t really know the history of this particular scientific dispute. But Goethe is going to let know how badly he’s been snuffed by the scientific community and their FAILURE to grasp his pure God gifted Reason.
Poor Eckermann had to sit through lecture after lecture of Goethe raving about how the Newton cultists won’t take his work seriously, and they’ll all learn in time, and he’s totally not mad that 50 years of hard work has gone unnoticed, and everyone is dumb unless they agree with the theory, then if they agree (100% no questions asked) they are kissed by the divine. People just need to think critically maaaaan. People gotta just use their noggins for the colouring.
In an absolutely hilarious couple of passages Eckermann performs a few experiments in order to understand the theory better and evidently comes across some data that indicates it might be called into question. He excitedly brings this to his sensei’s attention, knowing that he would love to evaluate and broaden his theory of colours. That’s what Goethe would love, right? You know, science? Integrity? But when he brought up his insights Goethe flips and calls him a heretic!
It is evidently interesting as this sort of politics is still present in the scientific community, and simply getting a paper published can be a real nightmare. Still, you’d think the guy who spends so much time condemning politics as a destructive force for the poetic and the scientific would not spend an equal amount of time engaging in polemics about Newton. At one point he considers whether he should continue these unhinged rants in a manuscript but realises he’s above that sort of thing...his historic take down of Newton will suffice. I should expect nothing less from a guy who used a team of sappers and interns to hijack an ENTIRE library from a medical academy (yes, this literally happened and is discussed in the book).
The other major caveat is the fact that this work is collated from scraps of writing drafted and re-drafted over a period of five years: by Eckermann. A common criticism of this book is that Eckermann is a total push over. Goethe will go off on tangents, sometimes illogical, sometimes begging for a bit of follow up or maybe a few prodding questions, and Eckermann accepts almost everything he says as gospel truth. That’s not to say Eckermann isn’t a great writer. In fact, Eckermann often diverts into his own insights which are utterly fascinating to read. But evidently one of these insights , about 90% of the way in, is that he is waaaaay too trusting of what others tell him.
It is also difficult to figure out how genuine some of these passages are. The meat and potatoes of the book is certified G (especially the Theory of Colours stuff. He made that abundantly clear) but it can be a little off putting when you are really getting into a passage and you can’t tell how much of it is Eckermann’s diary entry from that day, edits he made with later recollections, partial edits with Goethe’s writings, how much of all of THAT itself is due to the uncritical influence by Goethe, and how much of it is the pure insight of Goethe himself.
With these two issues above, I really had to slow down at the 40% mark. Maybe it’s because it has been a hard couple of months for me, but finishing this book felt like a slog at times. I don’t think even in my most difficult So why did I keep going?
Goethe is a fantastic writer and an incredible human being. Even in English, his works reach deep inside me and touch parts of my soul I wasn’t even aware existed. I once spent all day reading Werther cover to cover, tears in my eyes as my own youthful depression burned my insides the way it did him. Tasso made me realise horrible things about myself I don’t think I’ll recover from. Select passages from Iphigenia still make me smile or ponder their significance months after I’ve read them. Meister Wilhelm is easily the most important book I’ve ever read and has put me on a new life path, for better or worse.
In amongst all the dry insights to works I’ve never ready or goofy stories about what a weirdo Schiller was, Goethe will sit down and just relax, bringing his insights to religion, people, art, human nature and the importance empathy. And when he isn’t dropping insights, he sets up interrogating these questions. For an old man, he works HARD to get to the bottom of these questions. It’s very fascinating seeing Goethe working on a subject one day and bring new insights to it over the course of a week when Eckermann comes to visit him. No book of aphorisms or crappy celeb write ups can give you this sort of intimacy. I don’t just mean of Goethe’s genius ideas, but his way of thinking, his work method, his relationships to others, how he holds himself, how he agrees or disagrees with his trusted confidant, how he deals with grief, his biases, and all the little things he was going through just before he died.
This book is a must read, especially if you like literature and the time period of that era. Just maybe don’t try and power through it like I did. Otherwise your writing will be full of repetitious list making and hero worship (like this review).
Alright so, this is a book written by the E-Meister about his many conversations with the big G himself, Goethe. I had read most of Goethe’s major works this year and was ready to move on when I heard such rave reviews about this one. This is apparently Nietzsche’s favourite book, calling it a must read. It also coincides with Goethe polishing off Faust 2: Hellenic boogaloo. So I thought, why not?
Eckermann attached himself to Goethe in the five years leading up to his death and this book is mix of their face to face conversations, letters or just insights Eckermann has while working for/learning from Goethe. Now right off the bat, I should say that this book is filled with valuable insights and fascinating deep dives into Goethe’s mindset. Much of the characterisation of G-man and his work among academics appear to come from this book. Striving for the good as a life goal, the role of poets in society, hard work in the face of physical torment, it’s all here.
There’s two major caveats, however, to my five star score. For one, Goethe wasn’t some wisely sage who just sat around admiring the Däemonisch. He was a thoughtful and opinionated guy. And Eazy-E writes down everything they discussed. And I mean. Everything.
Art. Art theory. Art history. Modern art. Classical art. Rocks and minerals. The classical French. The modern French. The French critics who used to bully him. People at court who are currently bullying him. Plates. Paintings. Goethe can’t draw. German history sucks. German literature used to suck, is kind of good now, sort of. English history is great. English literature is the best thing since sliced bread, take that Voltaire! Military poems are great. Political poems sucks. Revolution la sucks. Aristocracy is great, we should not have revolutions please. Lord Byron is a mega chad. Please adopt me daddy Walter Scott. Schiller’s disgusting habits and neurotic behaviours. Napoleon did nothing wrong. Women are smart. Women are sometimes not as smart? Spirals. Italy. Nationalism. Ancient Greece. Plants. How to fire a bow. Cuckoos and the behaviours of birds? And pretty much any book, poem, play, review or goddamn scrap of paper he was reading that week.
Now don’t get me wrong, it really is valuable being able to reach into such a wide variety of topics, large and small, all in a single book, especially coming from such a rich and unique personality as Goethe. For this alone I was excited to read it and anyone, no matter who you are, will find dozens and dozens of passages to be exceptional. The problem is repetitive nature of the work. Eckermann claims he edited some of this stuff down and I’m not sure that is the case. There’s 8 passages about Napoleon I can think of off the top of my head where Goethe is essentially the exact same thing over and over again. Same goes for when he talks about Walter Scott, politics and barbarism etc. Once a month they get together to look a plate or a painting, yet the conversation seems to always lead to the same basic conclusions about art theory and art critique. Don’t let that stop you leaving it in E-meister!
It makes it quite a slog if there are references which you don’t understand. I followed along with the majority of the commentary around Goethe’s life, the ancient tragedians and Shakespeare. But at least 20% of the passages are pseudo reviews of French works with only occasional insights that can be gleaned without the added context. Not to mention the German works that I guarantee are not translated into English. Also, you better brush up your classical history! You would think there would be more juicy stuff about his exploits with the ladies but this is 19th century Europe and the best you get is how he sort of cheated on his wife writing a poem?
But my God. Do NOT get G-man started on his Theory of Colours. I haven’t studied it and I don’t really know the history of this particular scientific dispute. But Goethe is going to let know how badly he’s been snuffed by the scientific community and their FAILURE to grasp his pure God gifted Reason.
Poor Eckermann had to sit through lecture after lecture of Goethe raving about how the Newton cultists won’t take his work seriously, and they’ll all learn in time, and he’s totally not mad that 50 years of hard work has gone unnoticed, and everyone is dumb unless they agree with the theory, then if they agree (100% no questions asked) they are kissed by the divine. People just need to think critically maaaaan. People gotta just use their noggins for the colouring.
In an absolutely hilarious couple of passages Eckermann performs a few experiments in order to understand the theory better and evidently comes across some data that indicates it might be called into question. He excitedly brings this to his sensei’s attention, knowing that he would love to evaluate and broaden his theory of colours. That’s what Goethe would love, right? You know, science? Integrity? But when he brought up his insights Goethe flips and calls him a heretic!
It is evidently interesting as this sort of politics is still present in the scientific community, and simply getting a paper published can be a real nightmare. Still, you’d think the guy who spends so much time condemning politics as a destructive force for the poetic and the scientific would not spend an equal amount of time engaging in polemics about Newton. At one point he considers whether he should continue these unhinged rants in a manuscript but realises he’s above that sort of thing...his historic take down of Newton will suffice. I should expect nothing less from a guy who used a team of sappers and interns to hijack an ENTIRE library from a medical academy (yes, this literally happened and is discussed in the book).
The other major caveat is the fact that this work is collated from scraps of writing drafted and re-drafted over a period of five years: by Eckermann. A common criticism of this book is that Eckermann is a total push over. Goethe will go off on tangents, sometimes illogical, sometimes begging for a bit of follow up or maybe a few prodding questions, and Eckermann accepts almost everything he says as gospel truth. That’s not to say Eckermann isn’t a great writer. In fact, Eckermann often diverts into his own insights which are utterly fascinating to read. But evidently one of these insights , about 90% of the way in, is that he is waaaaay too trusting of what others tell him.
It is also difficult to figure out how genuine some of these passages are. The meat and potatoes of the book is certified G (especially the Theory of Colours stuff. He made that abundantly clear) but it can be a little off putting when you are really getting into a passage and you can’t tell how much of it is Eckermann’s diary entry from that day, edits he made with later recollections, partial edits with Goethe’s writings, how much of all of THAT itself is due to the uncritical influence by Goethe, and how much of it is the pure insight of Goethe himself.
With these two issues above, I really had to slow down at the 40% mark. Maybe it’s because it has been a hard couple of months for me, but finishing this book felt like a slog at times. I don’t think even in my most difficult So why did I keep going?
Goethe is a fantastic writer and an incredible human being. Even in English, his works reach deep inside me and touch parts of my soul I wasn’t even aware existed. I once spent all day reading Werther cover to cover, tears in my eyes as my own youthful depression burned my insides the way it did him. Tasso made me realise horrible things about myself I don’t think I’ll recover from. Select passages from Iphigenia still make me smile or ponder their significance months after I’ve read them. Meister Wilhelm is easily the most important book I’ve ever read and has put me on a new life path, for better or worse.
In amongst all the dry insights to works I’ve never ready or goofy stories about what a weirdo Schiller was, Goethe will sit down and just relax, bringing his insights to religion, people, art, human nature and the importance empathy. And when he isn’t dropping insights, he sets up interrogating these questions. For an old man, he works HARD to get to the bottom of these questions. It’s very fascinating seeing Goethe working on a subject one day and bring new insights to it over the course of a week when Eckermann comes to visit him. No book of aphorisms or crappy celeb write ups can give you this sort of intimacy. I don’t just mean of Goethe’s genius ideas, but his way of thinking, his work method, his relationships to others, how he holds himself, how he agrees or disagrees with his trusted confidant, how he deals with grief, his biases, and all the little things he was going through just before he died.
This book is a must read, especially if you like literature and the time period of that era. Just maybe don’t try and power through it like I did. Otherwise your writing will be full of repetitious list making and hero worship (like this review).
millius's review against another edition
informative
inspiring
reflective
relaxing
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? No
3.5
ariadne_oliver's review against another edition
3.0
If you are interested in the history and culture of Goethe's time (1749-1832), as I am, this is well worth reading. Having read some of Goethe's works it was interesting to find out about his plans, intentions and influences.
What does make this an occasionally uncomfortable read is the very uneven relationship between Eckermann and Goethe. After having known each other for three months, having spent most of that time apart and not communicating, Goethe asks Eckermann to stay in Weimar, not just for a while but for his whole life. And Eckermann accepts because as long as he can have Goethe he'll be happy.
Goethe continues to tell Eckermann what he should and shouldn't do and Eckermann continues to idolize Goethe and fail to see even one tiny flaw in him. They don't ever come close to connecting as equals. Also despite Eckermann's effort to portray Goethe in the most flattering light possible, Goethe comes across as quite conceited and full of himself at times.
What does make this an occasionally uncomfortable read is the very uneven relationship between Eckermann and Goethe. After having known each other for three months, having spent most of that time apart and not communicating, Goethe asks Eckermann to stay in Weimar, not just for a while but for his whole life. And Eckermann accepts because as long as he can have Goethe he'll be happy.
Goethe continues to tell Eckermann what he should and shouldn't do and Eckermann continues to idolize Goethe and fail to see even one tiny flaw in him. They don't ever come close to connecting as equals. Also despite Eckermann's effort to portray Goethe in the most flattering light possible, Goethe comes across as quite conceited and full of himself at times.
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