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rhyskr's review against another edition
i knew this book was gonna be about Christianity and religious trauma but idk this one just wasn't for me.
brunogcarr's review against another edition
4.0
Não tenho como negar a força, até a fúria, da prosa de Baldwin em temas como a segregação e a possibilidade de afirmação de identidade em qualquer contexto, como já tinha testemunhado em "Se esta rua falasse". Só não sinto ter pegado neste livro na altura ideal: a seguir à leitura de "Poeta Chileno", foi como ir diretamente de uma festa para uma celebração religiosa e levou algum tempo a entrar no ritmo e no espírito da obra.
bookedwithamba's review against another edition
emotional
reflective
sad
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.0
mayawinshell's review against another edition
challenging
dark
emotional
mysterious
reflective
sad
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
4.25
let me start with the obvious: the prose is BEAUTIFUL. below, a favorite quote:
“His mind was like the sea itself: troubled, and too deep for the bravest man’s descent, throwing up now and again, for the naked eye to wonder at, treasure and debris long forgotten on the bottom—bones and jewels, fantastic shells, jelly that had once been flesh, pearls that had once been eyes. And he was at the mercy of this sea, hanging there with darkness all around him.” (140-141, James Baldwin’s Early Novels & Stories)
i found the sea motifs particularly striking. in religious lit i’m used to hearing about landscapes of fiery perdition, and so much less often cold and dark waters. there’s surely water imagery in the bible— the flood of the noah’s ark story being the most significant (not that i’ve read it, i just know of it) — but this text’s use of ocean metaphors feel more powerful to me than ones of fire, because the imagery and sensation it evokes, of one’s soul/body being entirely trapped beneath the tremendous weight of all that darkness, trying fruitlessly to swim up to a pinpoint of light, is so much stronger. as it relates to spiritual breakthrough/salvation, if you’re religious (i’d guess), and as it relates to the very universal (secular) human struggle for meaning in this punishing world.
i’m relieved to see that so many other people felt that, because they’re not religious/christian, much of the religious allegory went over their heads. it was definitely the thing that made this book what i’d call a challenging read. and truth be told, it was sometimes exhausting to read, and that didn’t make me doubt the quality of the writing or authenticity of the experience (which, as i understand, was pretty much baldwin’s real life), so much as it made me really glad not to be a devout christian. because the WORK these characters go through — the fear of God, the fear of hell, the constant contradictions and subsequent justifications, the spiritual anguish — it all seems exhausting. for each of these wonderfully conceived characters (though not all LOVABLE) there is so much pain in their past and in their present, and their devotion does not convince me that any of them succeeded in reaching holiness, that feel truly saved, truly comforted in the arms of their lord. religion is supposed to be a solace — and after the horrific lives each of them, young and old, have lived, oh how they need solace — but it seems to me that their struggles toward salvation only add additional strife on top of it all. because each of them have “sinned”; none of them are perfect. and you kind of get this sense, during the long prayer session which makes up the third act of the novel (part 3: the threshing floor) as they each reflect on their tragic pasts, that they’re desperately searching around for the light in the end— an unsaid “haven’t i suffered enough, and worked hard enough to atone for my sins and be a good christian? isn’t the pain supposed to let up?” — unsaid, because instead, they make new justifications, and assure themselves and each other over and over and over, that god is bearing them up, and they’ll surely be rewarded when life ends. (or they otherwise threaten one another that only hell awaits them for their crimes—florence to gabriel, gabriel to johnny).
john’s entire journey made me so, so sad. he’s only 14 and has been told he’s a bad person— not only directly by his physically and emotionally abusive father, but also by the white world that controls his circumstances and limits his opportunities, and by his religion, which tells him he’s a sinner for his natural desires, his desire for freedom to choose his path, and his hatred of the man who has never shown him love a day in his short life. and then in the end, rather than rejecting his father’s path outright, he actually has a deeply painful and powerful salvation experience and comes to jesus, in his way. i was surprised for sure, and as i said, it made me sad. he’s toiling utterly alone in his thoughts, having surreal, dark visions, writhing in agony in the dust before the altar, and i kept thinking— jesus christ, he’s just a kid! he shouldn’t have to reckon with himself this way, he hasn’t done a single thing wrong! as he’s trembling and gripping elisha’s arm in the end, basically begging him to keep praying for him, it comes across as a plea not to leave him alone with his father, like he knows there’s yet worse to come. elisha promises to, which leaves john with a bit of strength, and he turns and smiles at his father, who doesn’t smile back, and it’s like johnny is saying “i’m better than you, you son of a bitch.” which is surely empowering for him, but also demonstrates he hasn’t come far from the rage and hatred that was keeping him so far underwater during his trance. even though he’s arguably undergone the most transformative experience of anyone in the story, it’s also hard to argue that he’s truly changed. earlier, as the others help john off of the floor, raining praise on him, we read this:
“Yet, as he moved among them, their hands touching, and tears falling, and the music rising—as though he moved down a great hall, full of a splendid company—something began to knock in that listening, astonished, newborn, and fragile heart of his; something recalling the terrors of the night, which were not finished, his heart seemed to say; which, in this company, were now to begin.” (200)
he seems to sense that this experience of “salvation” he’s undergone may have only been the first of many. surrounded by a a community like this, who have each already bought fully into the addicting cycle of self-flagellation and then bandaging of the wounds and then reopening them again, and each reassure one another that this is the way it’s supposed to be in order to get to heaven in the end, the goalposts must seem ever farther away to john. but you can’t blame him for this. you can’t blame most of them. the elder generation of the story escaped the jim crow south and survived horrifically sad things, and as we dive into each of their backstories, it’s impossible not to understand their choices and motivations. the backstories of the women—deborah and florence and esther and elizabeth—especially made my heart break, as james baldwin writes their stories with tremendous empathy. and gabriel, a violent and insecure coward, is obviously the hardest to empathize with, and his decisions are incredibly frustrating, but you still understand, perhaps more than he does in his own inner monologue, what it is that motivates him to deny the truth and run forever from accountability. florence knows, and elizabeth knows, and deborah and esther knew— and in his way, john knows now too. but so much goes unsaid in the present, save for when florence breaks her silence to gabriel after 30 years. and john has entered into what seems like the start of the same old cycle. it’s maddening. and mostly so, so sad. but i think all of this is the point, a little. some reviewers felt “preached at,” but i think that is not what james baldwin is doing here. he doesn’t seem like he’s condescending to the devout— it sounds like that WAS him in youth, and he demonstrates the importance of religion to these suffering people— but this hardly feels like a testament to spending one’s life in the church. this story does not end with real hope, in my opinion. the white world feels endlessly cruel and violent, and these people are made to feel so small everywhere except the storefront church where they bear the names of the saints, where they are the anointed of the lord. and it’s painful.
i have nothing but praise for james baldwin always. i don’t rate this 5 stars for ME because there was much religious context i surely missed, as this wasn’t my life experience, and the story didn’t reach deep inside of me in the way it probably did for people who lived it (or something similar to it). i didn’t connect as strongly to this as i did with giovanni’s room, but you know… giovanni’s room actually also speaks to an experience that i haven’t lived, honestly, so maybe i can’t chalk up my lack of connection to go tell it on the mountain all to not relating to it. it’s hard to say what the reason is i guess. but i’ll just say it wasn’t the prose. GOD can james baldwin write.
okay, i’ve rambled enough and it’s time for dinner. i’m gonna recommend it and i really hope someone more families with christianity reads it and can discuss it with me!
dreaming_ace's review against another edition
3.0
I don't know how I feel about this story. While I have some knowledge of the African American church community and currently go to a predominately African American congragation I felt I was missing something. Like I was missing the decoder ring which would turn the story from semi-trippy into something meaningful and powerful. So while I could feel why this is considered a classic I can't say I really understood it (Other than men are jerks who can't keep their pants up and some really messed up people cause a lot of trouble using the name of religion)
imogens_corner's review against another edition
4.5
Probably would’ve been a higher rating if I was more familiar with the bible.
annlee0110's review against another edition
challenging
dark
emotional
reflective
sad
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? No
- Flaws of characters a main focus? Yes
3.5
kjlemaire's review against another edition
5.0
Excellent narrative on themes like religion, race and family.
bea_reads78's review against another edition
4.5
Evocative. Pulls you into moments of intense feeling. It was really great, but I felt like my lack of understanding of the Bible and minimal knowledge of its different passages and their implications made large parts of this book hard to grasp and I felt like I was missing a lot of the meaning