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kathydavie's review against another edition
5.0
Third in the Wages of Sin subseries within the Honorverse overall series and revolving around Victor Cachat and Anton Zilwicki against the Mesan Alignment. It’s inciting revolution time! I reckon this one merits a "7".
My Take
Omigod. I don't know if it's just been too long since I've read an Honorverse story or if Weber and Flint are having too much fun with this story. I chuckled and laughed through at least the first half before it got serious. And, yeah, there are parts where I cried. There were also sections where I cheered and hoorayed! And gnashed my teeth and…
Victor is having too much fun with his new persona, and you'll enjoy reading his assessments of too-gorgeous and too-ugly being quite useful for the same reason. Listening as he plays and with his accent toy and his brutal, to-the-point analyses.
The first part reminds us of Victor and Anton's actions when they first drop in on Mesa with some analysis of their characters and abilities and includes some buildup around the hatred Manticore and Haven have for Manpower and company. It then segues into Victor and Anton having way too much fun stirring up the seccies on Mesa. Yep, it's a revolution in the making with fewer funny bits, more drama, and more crying — on my part at least.
It's strange because there is so much that happens in Cauldron of Ghosts, and yet, in many respects, this is a bridge story. Anton and Victor certainly kick things up a notch, but it's more of a kicking over the anthill kind of thing. A really BIG anthill.
Excellent point about who donates what: the poor give to anyone poorer than they are while the rich "give" to institutions that put their name on the buildings.
Weber/Flint do spend a lot of pages explaining various aspects of the Honorverse. How prolong affects attitudes about families and marriage. It does sound like an ideal society for families, with all the support there is in raising kids. There are some good arguments for it. Why Torch hasn't got much of a navy along with discussions of the various ships and their uses. The seccy society in Mesa. Why including Thandi on this mission is a good idea as well as why it won't impact the Torch army. How the educational system works on Beowulf. How Erewhon really works, which actually sounds pretty good. A bit more on how and why Old Earth died. Greater depth on why the medical establishment on Beowulf split and one chunk became the Mesan Alignment. How the seccy buildings are constructed, life in the neighborhoods, and their own social interactions. Then there is Sharon's belief about the Manticoran coffee…hmmm…
Now that Manticore and Haven know about the Mesan Alignment, they're discussing how they set things up to escape detection all these centuries. And makes me despise them even more. Lots of philosophizing about society.
Vickers is so stupid, he thinks Al Capone is an ancient Roman gangster. Nor is he the only idiot running around loose. I don't think much of a society that thinks indiscriminate violence with collateral damage amongst its population is a "job well done".
Ooh, I like how Honor describes Victor, as being the "closest thing a human can come to a treecat".
Omigod…crack me up over Yana's "disguise"! Poor baby.
Ah, jesus, the lengths the Mesan Alignment will go to further their agenda. You'll cry. You won't be able to help it. You'll be stunned, mouth-open, gobsmacked, stunned. And Weber/Flint just stretch that trauma out!
Oh, you will crack up! A Talking Head who actually makes sense! One of 'em is foaming off at the mouth about what a sociopath Victor was during the gunfight — the one that saved Anton's kids?? The other is asking what Victor should have done? Give them a lecture? Crack me up…!
Interesting developments in this for some Mesan employees as they begin to see those they looked down upon, those they treated as scum, as being human beings worthy of respect. All these saps who begin to understand the truth, and it's too late.
Duhh, did the Mesa security people really think the seccies were going to roll over when they saw what they'd be facing? From the start?
The newscasters keep talking about "cowardly and vile attacks", and naturally I'm thinking he's referring to the government forces. Since that's the truth. Silly me.
There's a legend building on Mesa, a brave story of Thandi Palane, Jurgen Dursek, and Bachue the Nose.
And, dammit, Weber/Flint have ended this all wrong!!! I wanna know what happened after the ships of the wall descended. No, no, no, noooooo. What happened…?! Seriously, as writers, they did brilliantly. As a reader, well, hmph…
The Story
Trajan is thrilled to be getting rid of that wild card, Cachat! As far as Haven is concerned, any possible cover Victor had was blown between his antics in helping Torch becoming independent and his actions with Anton on Mesa.
Those antics include Anton, Yara, and Herlander, and they’re all being sent to Manticore to the queen.
It’ll be a new mission and they’re sending Victor, Anton, Thandi, Yana, Steph, and Andrew in their new DNA sheaths into certain death.
The Characters
Since the list was almost longer than the book and GR has a limit on how many characters are allowed in a post, you'll have to visit my blog for the character roll.
The Cover
The cover is a metallic gold background of the silhouetted city of Mendel on Mesa with Victor front and slightly off-center (hmmm, how appropriate!) wearing a long duster and holstering his weapon (I think). The squat, dwarfish, leather-jacketed Anton is behind him, ready to rumble while the rest of the team is scattered behind them. A narrow black band across the top features the authors’ names in blue while the title is below it in red.
The title is what the Mesan Alignment intends to do, create a Cauldron of Ghosts.
My Take
Omigod. I don't know if it's just been too long since I've read an Honorverse story or if Weber and Flint are having too much fun with this story. I chuckled and laughed through at least the first half before it got serious. And, yeah, there are parts where I cried. There were also sections where I cheered and hoorayed! And gnashed my teeth and…
Victor is having too much fun with his new persona, and you'll enjoy reading his assessments of too-gorgeous and too-ugly being quite useful for the same reason. Listening as he plays and with his accent toy and his brutal, to-the-point analyses.
The first part reminds us of Victor and Anton's actions when they first drop in on Mesa with some analysis of their characters and abilities and includes some buildup around the hatred Manticore and Haven have for Manpower and company. It then segues into Victor and Anton having way too much fun stirring up the seccies on Mesa. Yep, it's a revolution in the making with fewer funny bits, more drama, and more crying — on my part at least.
"Sadly, military propriety took another hit.
'You heard the Old Lady,' Sydorenko's voice came over every listening com. 'Let us now do unto others as they have wet dreams of doing unto us.'"
It's strange because there is so much that happens in Cauldron of Ghosts, and yet, in many respects, this is a bridge story. Anton and Victor certainly kick things up a notch, but it's more of a kicking over the anthill kind of thing. A really BIG anthill.
Excellent point about who donates what: the poor give to anyone poorer than they are while the rich "give" to institutions that put their name on the buildings.
Maytag, Whirpool, Suds Emporium…
Weber/Flint do spend a lot of pages explaining various aspects of the Honorverse. How prolong affects attitudes about families and marriage. It does sound like an ideal society for families, with all the support there is in raising kids. There are some good arguments for it. Why Torch hasn't got much of a navy along with discussions of the various ships and their uses. The seccy society in Mesa. Why including Thandi on this mission is a good idea as well as why it won't impact the Torch army. How the educational system works on Beowulf. How Erewhon really works, which actually sounds pretty good. A bit more on how and why Old Earth died. Greater depth on why the medical establishment on Beowulf split and one chunk became the Mesan Alignment. How the seccy buildings are constructed, life in the neighborhoods, and their own social interactions. Then there is Sharon's belief about the Manticoran coffee…hmmm…
Now that Manticore and Haven know about the Mesan Alignment, they're discussing how they set things up to escape detection all these centuries. And makes me despise them even more. Lots of philosophizing about society.
Vickers is so stupid, he thinks Al Capone is an ancient Roman gangster. Nor is he the only idiot running around loose. I don't think much of a society that thinks indiscriminate violence with collateral damage amongst its population is a "job well done".
Ooh, I like how Honor describes Victor, as being the "closest thing a human can come to a treecat".
Omigod…crack me up over Yana's "disguise"! Poor baby.
"'I plan to hold that grudge the rest of my life.' … 'Mind you, it's likely to be a short life,' she said. 'I'm bound to topple over and kill myself the moment I get distracted.'
'It's a status symbol in a number of Verge cultures,' Kham elaborated. 'And the wealthier you are, the — ah — more voluptuous you are.'
Steph and Andrew studied Yana a little longer.
'So what do we call you now?' Andrew asked. 'Midas?'"
Ah, jesus, the lengths the Mesan Alignment will go to further their agenda. You'll cry. You won't be able to help it. You'll be stunned, mouth-open, gobsmacked, stunned. And Weber/Flint just stretch that trauma out!
Oh, you will crack up! A Talking Head who actually makes sense! One of 'em is foaming off at the mouth about what a sociopath Victor was during the gunfight — the one that saved Anton's kids?? The other is asking what Victor should have done? Give them a lecture? Crack me up…!
Interesting developments in this for some Mesan employees as they begin to see those they looked down upon, those they treated as scum, as being human beings worthy of respect. All these saps who begin to understand the truth, and it's too late.
Duhh, did the Mesa security people really think the seccies were going to roll over when they saw what they'd be facing? From the start?
The newscasters keep talking about "cowardly and vile attacks", and naturally I'm thinking he's referring to the government forces. Since that's the truth. Silly me.
There's a legend building on Mesa, a brave story of Thandi Palane, Jurgen Dursek, and Bachue the Nose.
And, dammit, Weber/Flint have ended this all wrong!!! I wanna know what happened after the ships of the wall descended. No, no, no, noooooo. What happened…?! Seriously, as writers, they did brilliantly. As a reader, well, hmph…
The Story
Trajan is thrilled to be getting rid of that wild card, Cachat! As far as Haven is concerned, any possible cover Victor had was blown between his antics in helping Torch becoming independent and his actions with Anton on Mesa.
Those antics include Anton, Yara, and Herlander, and they’re all being sent to Manticore to the queen.
It’ll be a new mission and they’re sending Victor, Anton, Thandi, Yana, Steph, and Andrew in their new DNA sheaths into certain death.
The Characters
Since the list was almost longer than the book and GR has a limit on how many characters are allowed in a post, you'll have to visit my blog for the character roll.
The Cover
The cover is a metallic gold background of the silhouetted city of Mendel on Mesa with Victor front and slightly off-center (hmmm, how appropriate!) wearing a long duster and holstering his weapon (I think). The squat, dwarfish, leather-jacketed Anton is behind him, ready to rumble while the rest of the team is scattered behind them. A narrow black band across the top features the authors’ names in blue while the title is below it in red.
The title is what the Mesan Alignment intends to do, create a Cauldron of Ghosts.
gabyk_lib's review against another edition
Fast paced and lively. Early on it seemed to drag but it simply switched directions in a delightful way. Not sure there was any major character development but you didn't mind as all the familiar players were doing their thing and we're engaging as always
jquint's review against another edition
3.0
Bored through most of it. Lots of exposition and argument, repeat chapters from other books.
redheadbeans's review against another edition
3.0
I feel like a better title might have been "Meanwhile, the Plot", but things pull together pretty well by the end. I still think Weber and Flint spend too much of the first half of the book literally waxing poetic on how awesome Victor Cachat is. I like Victor, but it's still a bit much to see everybody thinking just how awesome he is. Repeatedly. What was Yana up to? What was Thandi up to? What were Barry and Jeremy and Hugh up to? I'd ask for others but they're questions that could be answered in the main series and "Saganami" books.
Maybe I just haven't read a main series Honorverse book in a while, but there's SO much time spent detailing areas and people and politics that don't directly or indirectly for most of the book involve the protagonists and it's a bit exhausting and somewhat boring. It's all building up and there are reasons that I could see for most of it.
Overall it's a very timely book. There's one soldier's name that I think was not picked accidentally. There are a lot of messages about prejudice, media framing, police brutality, and the distance between political understanding and reality. On that note, it's also a very brutal read, particularly for violence against children. If you're an Honorverse fan, you'll probably be fine.
Maybe I just haven't read a main series Honorverse book in a while, but there's SO much time spent detailing areas and people and politics that don't directly or indirectly for most of the book involve the protagonists and it's a bit exhausting and somewhat boring. It's all building up and there are reasons that I could see for most of it.
Overall it's a very timely book. There's one soldier's name that I think was not picked accidentally. There are a lot of messages about prejudice, media framing, police brutality, and the distance between political understanding and reality. On that note, it's also a very brutal read, particularly for violence against children. If you're an Honorverse fan, you'll probably be fine.
kesnit's review against another edition
3.0
Maybe because it's been a long time since I read the first two books in this sub-series, but I could not for the life of keep track of who's who. Anton and Victor are easy, but a lot of the supporting cast (especially the tertiary characters from previous books) are hard to keep track of. On top of that, Weber does his normal "add lots of characters who exist only in this book," which makes it even harder to keep track of everyone.
To make matters worse, I'm not really sure where the story is supposed to be going. It obviously feeds into the Manticore-Haven alliance vs. Manpower-Mesa-Alliance, but it doesn't really do much of anything. Other people have said this would have worked better as a short story, rather than a full-length novel, and I agree. The events at the end indicate where this is leading, but it could have been done as a side story.
To make matters worse, I'm not really sure where the story is supposed to be going. It obviously feeds into the Manticore-Haven alliance vs. Manpower-Mesa-Alliance, but it doesn't really do much of anything. Other people have said this would have worked better as a short story, rather than a full-length novel, and I agree. The events at the end indicate where this is leading, but it could have been done as a side story.
mks's review against another edition
3.0
Lots of action, but the plot hasn't seemed to have advanced very far. The editing was very poor and the seams between chapters wasn't great - there were literally passages that were duplicated word for word.
I enjoy Weber's works, but his habit of stretching the plots on beyond the breaking point is becoming quite annoying. This interweaving of various series, while probably great for his sales, makes it harder to stay up to date and interested. I'll keep buying for now, but I wish he would tighten these books up.
I enjoy Weber's works, but his habit of stretching the plots on beyond the breaking point is becoming quite annoying. This interweaving of various series, while probably great for his sales, makes it harder to stay up to date and interested. I'll keep buying for now, but I wish he would tighten these books up.
brettt's review against another edition
2.0
David Weber began his Honor Harrington series in 1992 with On Basilisk Station, and in it our intrepid heroine commanded a ship of the Star Kingdom of Manticore against the far larger People's Republic of Haven. Manticore remained Haven's superior on the fields of battle because of its robust interstellar trade and Haven's corruption. And in case Weber hadn't made it clear he was writing a Horatio Hornblower England v. Revolutionary France-in-space novel, the leader of Haven was Rob S. Pierre.
But the two nations have found a common enemy after many years of fighting, and are now allied against the Mesan Alignment. This cloak-and-dagger corporation has as its goal the establishment of a genetic caste system throughout as much of the galaxy as possible -- with its own directors as tyrant oligarchs. Master spies Victor Cachat and Anton Zilwicki, of Haven and Manticore respectively, have been moving against Mesa's backstage shenanigans for some time and have helped uncover enough of the conspiracy to unite their formerly antagonistic governments. Now in Cauldron of Ghosts Cachat, Zilwicki and their team infiltrate the Mesa homeworld to try to gain proof of the conspiracy and perhaps even bring Mesa a freedom its people have never known.
For this series, Weber teams with sci-fi author Eric Flint, who is a well-known name in military-based science fiction in his own right. It's hard for anyone other than the authors to say how much each one contributed, Flint has less success than other collaborators in reducing the amount of "meeting minutes" scenes to which his colleague is prone. The espionage plotline is handled deftly, but the pair telegraph the villains' atrocities with almost anesthetized clumsiness. The Mesans are exploding bombs in their own cities to create a "terrorist threat" they can use to justify harsh measures, and as soon as we meet some ordinary person going about their business in the middle of a chapter, we know what's coming. The replication of these scenes lengthens and deadens the story, and helps make Cauldron one of the weaker entries in its particular Honorverse series.
See original here.
But the two nations have found a common enemy after many years of fighting, and are now allied against the Mesan Alignment. This cloak-and-dagger corporation has as its goal the establishment of a genetic caste system throughout as much of the galaxy as possible -- with its own directors as tyrant oligarchs. Master spies Victor Cachat and Anton Zilwicki, of Haven and Manticore respectively, have been moving against Mesa's backstage shenanigans for some time and have helped uncover enough of the conspiracy to unite their formerly antagonistic governments. Now in Cauldron of Ghosts Cachat, Zilwicki and their team infiltrate the Mesa homeworld to try to gain proof of the conspiracy and perhaps even bring Mesa a freedom its people have never known.
For this series, Weber teams with sci-fi author Eric Flint, who is a well-known name in military-based science fiction in his own right. It's hard for anyone other than the authors to say how much each one contributed, Flint has less success than other collaborators in reducing the amount of "meeting minutes" scenes to which his colleague is prone. The espionage plotline is handled deftly, but the pair telegraph the villains' atrocities with almost anesthetized clumsiness. The Mesans are exploding bombs in their own cities to create a "terrorist threat" they can use to justify harsh measures, and as soon as we meet some ordinary person going about their business in the middle of a chapter, we know what's coming. The replication of these scenes lengthens and deadens the story, and helps make Cauldron one of the weaker entries in its particular Honorverse series.
See original here.
leons1701's review against another edition
4.0
Probably the last book in the Torch (or Wages of Sin) sequence, this is a solid read for Honorverse fans. Sadly, this is probably the last good Honorverse book other than prequels unless David gets a better editor to keep him on track. But hey, this one is good, enjoy it while you can. Despite a somewhat rushed and jumbled ending (it's easier to put together if you've been reading the Shadows sequence) this is a decent espionage adventure starring the team of Cachat and Zilwiki and their not exactly triumphant return to Mesa. You've just discovered the biggest secret in the galaxy and revealed it to those who need to know, what do you do for an encore? Yup, go back to the incredibly dangerous source to learn more.
betsychadwell's review against another edition
4.0
I enjoyed this book. It suffers from the same problem as the previous one in the series, namely that it is so obviously just building back story for a future book to come. But the action is engrossing and it has the feeling that the main book must be coming soon.
And I really like the main characters.
And I really like the main characters.
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