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talentedcain's review against another edition
adventurous
dark
emotional
funny
relaxing
sad
tense
medium-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? Yes
- Diverse cast of characters? It's complicated
- Flaws of characters a main focus? It's complicated
4.0
nocario's review against another edition
adventurous
funny
fast-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? Character
- Strong character development? No
- Loveable characters? It's complicated
- Diverse cast of characters? Yes
- Flaws of characters a main focus? No
5.0
steven_v's review
4.0
The Water Margin is a classic of Chinese literature. Written centuries ago and set during the Song dynasty, it is the story of 108 heroes who disobeyed the local and national political authority because it was corrupt. Through 70 chapters, one by one these wronged heroes gather at Liangshan Marsh, and from there they sally forth to mete out justice against the dishonorable government officials in various provinces around the area.
This particular edition is a translation, originally rendered in the mid-20th century, and now updated with modern spellings of the Mandarin language. It was admittedly difficult to get through, as there are so many different characters (108 protagonists, and probably nearly as many villains and a huge supporting cast), many with very similar (to an American reader) names, such as Shi Jin and Shi Qin. Characters may appear for a few chapters and not be seen again for 200 pages. More than once I had to go back and re-read a few pages to figure out who we were talking about.
However, the unifying character is the main leader of the bandits, Song Jiang, and by around the middle of the book, it clearly becomes primarily his story. He is a very interesting character, as he repeatedly offers to resign his post in favor of other bandit leaders, but stays on because they beg him to do so. He often releases his enemies and offers to let them join him, which they frequently do due to his honorable behavior. And there are a number of other interesting bandit leaders, such as Lu Da, who have important parts to play at various junctures.
The primary significance of this work, however, is not its entertainment value, which frankly waxes and wanes throughout (hence why it took me several months to finish), but rather, its insight into the culture of ancient China. Although the events are fictional, we see clear indications of the values and mores of Chinese culture at the time of the novel's writing (which was not during the Song dynasty but several centuries later). For a person seeking to gain insight into the Chinese culture of the past, this book is a valuable read.
This particular edition is a translation, originally rendered in the mid-20th century, and now updated with modern spellings of the Mandarin language. It was admittedly difficult to get through, as there are so many different characters (108 protagonists, and probably nearly as many villains and a huge supporting cast), many with very similar (to an American reader) names, such as Shi Jin and Shi Qin. Characters may appear for a few chapters and not be seen again for 200 pages. More than once I had to go back and re-read a few pages to figure out who we were talking about.
However, the unifying character is the main leader of the bandits, Song Jiang, and by around the middle of the book, it clearly becomes primarily his story. He is a very interesting character, as he repeatedly offers to resign his post in favor of other bandit leaders, but stays on because they beg him to do so. He often releases his enemies and offers to let them join him, which they frequently do due to his honorable behavior. And there are a number of other interesting bandit leaders, such as Lu Da, who have important parts to play at various junctures.
The primary significance of this work, however, is not its entertainment value, which frankly waxes and wanes throughout (hence why it took me several months to finish), but rather, its insight into the culture of ancient China. Although the events are fictional, we see clear indications of the values and mores of Chinese culture at the time of the novel's writing (which was not during the Song dynasty but several centuries later). For a person seeking to gain insight into the Chinese culture of the past, this book is a valuable read.
saralynnburnett's review against another edition
4.0
It has always bugged me to no end that the classics in Chinese lit never make the 'longest books' lists in the Western world (though I did come across a Wiki article that had Romance of the 3 Kingdoms on it)... not because they aren't long enough (this one at 2149 is like reading War and Peace, twice) but because no one over here reads them. They're good! Seriously - no one does drama (especially family drama) quite like Chinese lit.
With that said Outlaws of Marsh (aka: Water Margin) was totally different than a lot of other Chinese lit. It reads more like a ton of little tales all loosely woven together. There are 108 main characters (the outlaws) and loads of villains and other characters - a lot to keep track of but some of the main outlaws and villains reappear throughout which gives it its continuity. The biggest adjustment for me was the way it's told / written. It's SO straightforward and lacking in descriptive beauty. Sentences like 'they rode to the inn and had a conversation. They stopped their conversation and tied their horses." - If you can look past that and read the tales for what they are you'll like it.
A common thread it has with other Chinese lit books I've read is the inclusion of magic. The outlaws are reincarnations of demons let loose by a corrupt official (the underlying theme of the entire work is men battling the corruptness of the government & other men) and of course there are magical feats of strength, weird dreams, and leg scrolls that make you run super fast (< totally want some of these for myself).
All in all - this is essentially a book about guys, martial arts, and drinking (seriously omg I wish it came with a key for measurements of liquid back in 14th century China because these outlaws drank a ton every other page) but I really enjoyed all the tales (especially those of the 3 lady outlaws) a lot.
With that said Outlaws of Marsh (aka: Water Margin) was totally different than a lot of other Chinese lit. It reads more like a ton of little tales all loosely woven together. There are 108 main characters (the outlaws) and loads of villains and other characters - a lot to keep track of but some of the main outlaws and villains reappear throughout which gives it its continuity. The biggest adjustment for me was the way it's told / written. It's SO straightforward and lacking in descriptive beauty. Sentences like 'they rode to the inn and had a conversation. They stopped their conversation and tied their horses." - If you can look past that and read the tales for what they are you'll like it.
A common thread it has with other Chinese lit books I've read is the inclusion of magic. The outlaws are reincarnations of demons let loose by a corrupt official (the underlying theme of the entire work is men battling the corruptness of the government & other men) and of course there are magical feats of strength, weird dreams, and leg scrolls that make you run super fast (< totally want some of these for myself).
All in all - this is essentially a book about guys, martial arts, and drinking (seriously omg I wish it came with a key for measurements of liquid back in 14th century China because these outlaws drank a ton every other page) but I really enjoyed all the tales (especially those of the 3 lady outlaws) a lot.
snappydog's review
3.0
The story’s worth reading, but this translation isn’t the greatest.
I really would recommend Water Margin, ‘cos there’s a lot to enjoy about it. It’s hard to tell how much of this is the style of the translator and how much is the original narrator, but there’re a lot of really idiosyncratic and interesting things about both the story itself and the character of the prose: it’s very much reminiscent of someone telling a story to a captivated audience, ending each chapter on a cliffhanger and promising to answer the mysteries next time.
It’s also fascinating to see the difference in moral values between those of the old Chinese culture and those of a modern reader. I suspect many of the acts carried out by the ‘heroes’ of the story will not seem very heroic at all to most readers, although it is interesting to try to reconcile their more vicious crimes with the values the narrator clearly thinks they’re exhibiting. It’s occasionally laugh-out-loud funny, sometimes deliberately and sometimes probably not.
So that’s the tale itself; as for this version, I’m not sold on it. I don’t have any other translations to compare to, but based on synopses I’ve read elsewhere it seems that there might be a few bits missing, with a big chunk of story that I was expecting to find at the end simply not there. This edition is weighed down by typos and frequent awkward phrasings and punctuation, which I don’t think can be attributed to staying true to the original. I would suggest reading Lowe’s foreword and introduction, although I’d probably read it after reading the rest of the book rather than before, since it’s much more interesting once you have more context about the events of the story.
I really would recommend Water Margin, ‘cos there’s a lot to enjoy about it. It’s hard to tell how much of this is the style of the translator and how much is the original narrator, but there’re a lot of really idiosyncratic and interesting things about both the story itself and the character of the prose: it’s very much reminiscent of someone telling a story to a captivated audience, ending each chapter on a cliffhanger and promising to answer the mysteries next time.
It’s also fascinating to see the difference in moral values between those of the old Chinese culture and those of a modern reader. I suspect many of the acts carried out by the ‘heroes’ of the story will not seem very heroic at all to most readers, although it is interesting to try to reconcile their more vicious crimes with the values the narrator clearly thinks they’re exhibiting. It’s occasionally laugh-out-loud funny, sometimes deliberately and sometimes probably not.
So that’s the tale itself; as for this version, I’m not sold on it. I don’t have any other translations to compare to, but based on synopses I’ve read elsewhere it seems that there might be a few bits missing, with a big chunk of story that I was expecting to find at the end simply not there. This edition is weighed down by typos and frequent awkward phrasings and punctuation, which I don’t think can be attributed to staying true to the original. I would suggest reading Lowe’s foreword and introduction, although I’d probably read it after reading the rest of the book rather than before, since it’s much more interesting once you have more context about the events of the story.
carmelitasita's review against another edition
4.0
This is a surprisingly readable book, full of adventure and bandits and battles. I truly enjoyed reading this book. Some of the things in this book that made me wonder were the heroes who kept getting into trouble with the government and becoming bandits, the death count, and the women who were all sleeping around under their husbands' noses. The guy who wrote this must have had quite the wife.
daybreak's review against another edition
I read 1262 pages of this book before finally admitting to myself that this was anymore would simply be a waste of time that wouldn't be bringing me anything.
This is said to be one of the 4 great classics of Chinese litterature and after reading this, I am absolutely appalled by that statement.
I found virtually no literary value here. For the benefit of doubt, I will chalk it all up to the translation but even then I'm incredibly dubious. The writing is dry as scorched earth, the story repetitive and frankly uninteresting and the themes... The themes and messages here leave me absolutely confounded.
I am personally baffled at this book and how it is marketed. This book is praised as the Chinese Robin Hood story; the blurb mentions Chinese citizens who are disillusioned with corrupt governments and turn to banditry to fight against the system. I don't know if people actually read this book because this is absolutely a thousand li away from the truth.
This book is about people who turn to banditry. That's it. These people are not Robin Hood equivalents: they do not aim or help the common people. Actually, in truth, they kill innocent people and very often turn to banditry after harming innocent people. What's worse: the author tries to spin all the actions of the bandits in a positive light, even when said actions are absolutely disgusting and wrong. Ohh bandit steals the food and beats an innocent person? Oh, well all is forgiven because he is the famous X from X province; quick, kowtow and show your respect. Shi Xiu steals a rooster then burns down a man's tavern when confronted? Oh well no the actual person to blame is the tavern owner: we now have reason to lead and war and kill the whole Zhu Family who suddenly become terrible oppressors for some unexplained reason.
I will give this book the benefit of the doubt: both in terms of the writing and the moral values. Maybe there is a cultural chasm that cannot be filled here. However, with my ethical and moral beliefs, I found the bandits and their actions often despicable and cannot fathom the use of "chivalrous" and "gallant" when it comes to them (can we talk about the times they set fire to people's homes to force them to join them and suddenly all is well?). Like another reviewer rightly said, the only value they have is in their loyalty to each other...
Their is no fight against corruption or injustice here: the bandits themselves are terribly corrupted, honourless and unjust. The only thing that I retain is that there is one truth in their world: power.
I was really tempted in giving a one star rating to this. I restrained myself since I haven't read the whole book but what I've read, I would definitely have rated only 1 star. I still keep hope in the 3 other classics: hopefully, I'll find better there...
This is said to be one of the 4 great classics of Chinese litterature and after reading this, I am absolutely appalled by that statement.
I found virtually no literary value here. For the benefit of doubt, I will chalk it all up to the translation but even then I'm incredibly dubious. The writing is dry as scorched earth, the story repetitive and frankly uninteresting and the themes... The themes and messages here leave me absolutely confounded.
I am personally baffled at this book and how it is marketed. This book is praised as the Chinese Robin Hood story; the blurb mentions Chinese citizens who are disillusioned with corrupt governments and turn to banditry to fight against the system. I don't know if people actually read this book because this is absolutely a thousand li away from the truth.
This book is about people who turn to banditry. That's it. These people are not Robin Hood equivalents: they do not aim or help the common people. Actually, in truth, they kill innocent people and very often turn to banditry after harming innocent people. What's worse: the author tries to spin all the actions of the bandits in a positive light, even when said actions are absolutely disgusting and wrong. Ohh bandit steals the food and beats an innocent person? Oh, well all is forgiven because he is the famous X from X province; quick, kowtow and show your respect. Shi Xiu steals a rooster then burns down a man's tavern when confronted? Oh well no the actual person to blame is the tavern owner: we now have reason to lead and war and kill the whole Zhu Family who suddenly become terrible oppressors for some unexplained reason.
I will give this book the benefit of the doubt: both in terms of the writing and the moral values. Maybe there is a cultural chasm that cannot be filled here. However, with my ethical and moral beliefs, I found the bandits and their actions often despicable and cannot fathom the use of "chivalrous" and "gallant" when it comes to them (can we talk about the times they set fire to people's homes to force them to join them and suddenly all is well?). Like another reviewer rightly said, the only value they have is in their loyalty to each other...
Their is no fight against corruption or injustice here: the bandits themselves are terribly corrupted, honourless and unjust. The only thing that I retain is that there is one truth in their world: power.
I was really tempted in giving a one star rating to this. I restrained myself since I haven't read the whole book but what I've read, I would definitely have rated only 1 star. I still keep hope in the 3 other classics: hopefully, I'll find better there...
spacestationtrustfund's review against another edition
3.0
Translation by Sidney Shapiro. Full translation comparison RTC.
delurks's review against another edition
adventurous
funny
slow-paced
- Plot- or character-driven? A mix
- Strong character development? It's complicated
- Loveable characters? No
- Diverse cast of characters? N/A
- Flaws of characters a main focus? N/A
3.0